Jews were tortured before execution in Mumbai attacks

[jameznyhc]

fuckin savage islamic fascists..Michael Savage pointed out last night the medias refusal to report this .. now it finally does come out in one european paper.. and notice how the DETAILS are not provided here .. only the word torture

Israeli hostages killed by Islamic terrorists during the attacks on Mumbai (formerly Bombay) were tortured by their captors before they were bound together and killed, according to officials in both countries.

By Damien McElroy in Bombay
Last Updated: 7:52AM GMT 02 Dec 2008


Jewish victims made up a disproportionate number of the foreigners killed after 10 Muslim fanatics stormed a series of sites in the Indian financial capital.

Members of the beleaguered Jewish community in Mumbai gathered at a crumbling synagogue for a memorial for Rabbi Gavriel Holtzberg and his wife Rivka, who ran the cultural centre targeted by the Deccan Mujahideen.

The couple's son, Moshe survived after his nanny, Sandra Samuel escaped with him in her arms 10 hours after the hostage incident started. The child cried "Ima" and "Dada," or mummy and daddy, as the service began.

Moshe's grandparents have arrived from Israel to take the orphaned boy home and there is intense pressure to grant Miss Samuel a visa by declaring her righteous among the gentiles.

Two countries have posted officials at the JJ Hospital morgue but there are at least twice as many Israeli disaster specialists as British consuls representing the former colonial power.

Israeli officials confirmed six Jews were dead but the figure is likely to rise to eight. The total number of foreigners killed in the attacks stands at 22.

A forensic team arrived on a specially chartered flight on Sunday night. "There are still a few yet to be identified – not a lot, under five – and this is why we need the forensic team," an Israeli diplomat said. "And there are two or three Israelis unaccounted for and we have a couple of bodies that could be them."

Doctors expressed horror at the condition of the bodies recovered from the Nariman Building, which housed the Orthodox Chabad-Lubavitch retreat.

"I have seen so many dead bodies in my life, and was traumatised," a mortician said. "It was apparent that most of the dead were tortured. What shocked me were the telltale signs showing clearly how the hostages were executed in cold blood."

The group that stormed Bombay's most famous institutions displayed unrestrained brutality throughout the mission. The captain of a fishing trawler hijacked by the group in Arabian Sea was found with his throat cut.

Police said 17 victims were pushed against a wall in the corridor of the Oberoi hotel and executed in a line.

One man who served a glass of water to a terrorist at Bombay's main railway station was shot in the forehead.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3539171/Mumbai-attacks-Jews-tortured-before-executed-during-hostage-crisis.html

[jameznyhc]

NY Times’ Politically Correct Coverage of Mumbai Massacre
Monday December 1, 2008


In a series of six alleged “news” stories on the Mumbai massacre, from November 27 to December 1, The New York Times (America’s newspaper which sounds like a broken record) refused to call the terrorists Muslims or Islamic extremists.

The killers were variously described as “terrorists,” “gunmen,” “militants’ and “assailants,” but never Muslims. The only time readers could catch a glimpse of the terrorists’ motivation was when the paper quoted them directly - as when they complained about the treatment of Muslims in India and the Kashmir or called for the release of “mujahedeen prisoners.”

The Times adamantly refuses to recognize a connection between Islam and worldwide terrorism, even though most terrorist acts are committed by Muslims, terrorist groups have names like jihad-this and Islamic-that, and terrorists regularly quote the Koran’s kill-the-infidels verses.

Collectively, this constitutes the greatest denial of reality in the history of journalism.

That aside, The Times frequently got the facts wrong or omitted important details. In a November 30 story, the paper described the murders as “indiscriminate.”

Hardly. When a Turkish couple told their captors they were Muslims, they were immediately released. The terrorists targeted Mumbai’s Chabad House (a center of Jewish activity in the city) for one reason and one reason only - they wanted to kill Jews.

The only terrorist captured by Indian commandos said he and his comrades were told to target foreigners (particularly Americans and Brits) and Jews. Indiscriminate, did you say?

In thousands of words of coverage, The New York Times never mentioned that victims’ bodies frequently bore the marks of torture. One of the doctors who performed post-mortems was quoted on the Indian news website Rediff.com as saying “of all the bodies, the Israeli victims bore the maximum torture marks.”

For news of the latest developments in the terrorist war on civilization, the last place you want to look is The New York Times.




Click here to sign the petition.

www.michaelsavage.com

[igor]

Israel really needs to get on the ball and start doing something. Whats the point of spending so much money to build and equip an army but not use it ??? :disgusted

[jameznyhc]

Israel really needs to get on the ball and start doing something. Whats the point of spending so much money to build and equip an army but not use it ??? :disgusted

yes its unfortunate bush ties their hands but its time for them to say fuck you ..americans and brits were killed as well .. the rabbi and his wife were from brooklyn .. where the revenge?? i know terrorist will be killed across the middle east cause israel like to do shit on the dl tip and just execute these savages .. lets hope they can hunt as many down as possible

And if the israels do respond strongly tthe world will blame them and bush ..the hypocrisy is insane

[Dave S]

yes its unfortunate bush ties their hands but its time for them to say fuck you ..americans and brits were killed as well .. the rabbi and his wife were from brooklyn .. where the revenge?? i know terrorist will be killed across the middle east cause israel like to do shit on the dl tip and just execute these savages .. lets hope they can hunt as many down as possible

And if the israels do respond strongly tthe world will blame them and bush ..the hypocrisy is insane

You are right about this......

[just b u]

yes its unfortunate bush ties their hands but its time for them to say fuck you ..americans and brits were killed as well .. the rabbi and his wife were from brooklyn .. where the revenge?? i know terrorist will be killed across the middle east cause israel like to do shit on the dl tip and just execute these savages .. lets hope they can hunt as many down as possible

And if the israels do respond strongly tthe world will blame them and bush ..the hypocrisy is insane
This is so sickening, especially how the fucked up mass media keeps quiet about it, as if jewish blood is dispensible. I also heard that the terrorists were on cocaine and LSD. There needs to be a retaliation and soon. Bomb the fuck out of Pakistan, they know where their training grounds are, what is going on here.

and it's not just about jews its about the 150+ indians that were killed. these bastards only unerstand strength.

[admin]

This is sad and it's fucked up. But you know what, why would any Jew want to be in a country where there is over 200 million Muslims (3rd largest Muslim population). I know if I was a hard core Jew I would not be in any country where the Muslim population is that high, it's like a no brainier.

[admin]

This is so sickening, especially how the fucked up mass media keeps quiet about it, as if jewish blood is dispensible. I also heard that the terrorists were on cocaine and LSD. There needs to be a retaliation and soon. Bomb the fuck out of Pakistan, they know where their training grounds are, what is going on here.

and it's not just about jews its about the 150+ indians that were killed. these bastards only unerstand strength.

" I also heard that the terrorists were on cocaine and LSD" is this a fact, where did you hear this?

[igor]

The terrorists were given amphetamines to keep them up and alert. Their families would also get paid something like $1,000 to complete the terrorist attack. Ridiculous.

[longlegs424]

Israel really needs to get on the ball and start doing something. Whats the point of spending so much money to build and equip an army but not use it ??? :disgusted

exactly.. they make everyone serve and for what??? ughhh

this shit is beyond aggrivating :pullhair

did anyone see the poor lil boy of the rabbi and his wife (the babys parents) who were killed.. hes so cute

[igor]

exactly.. they make everyone serve and for what??? ughhh

this shit is beyond aggrivating :pullhair

did anyone see the poor lil boy of the rabbi and his wife (the babys parents) who were killed.. hes so cute

most of my family lives in Israel and all of the men have served in the army. they used to tell me how grueling it is to serve. Israel is supposed to have top notch special forces kinda like Russia but yet they fail to do anything about this. I don't want my family to go out and fight and risk their lives but deep down its what needs to be done.

anyone read the story on how a jewish doctor attended a muslim school to learn Arabic in San Francisco? He comes to the first day of class and it was canceled. 6 days later they find him dead at the bottom of an elevator shaft in the school. detectives say there is no foul play. iam sorry...but WTF!

[longlegs424]

most of my family lives in Israel and all of the men have served in the army. they used to tell me how grueling it is to serve. Israel is supposed to have top notch special forces kinda like Russia but yet they fail to do anything about this. I don't want my family to go out and fight and risk their lives but deep down its what needs to be done.

anyone read the story on how a jewish doctor attended a muslim school to learn Arabic in San Francisco? He comes to the first day of class and it was canceled. 6 days later they find him dead at the bottom of an elevator shaft in the school. detectives say there is no foul play. iam sorry...but WTF!

95% of my family is in israel... believe me i know

its fuckin disguisting

[igor]

this war between jews and muslims has been going on for thousands of years and its always muslim radicalists who start shit and kill many innocent people. why do none of these countries who fight for peace do anything? they are scared that muslim radicalists will pop in their country and reek havoc as revenge. USA is supposed to be a super power country whos objective is to fight for freedom for everyone in the world (well thats what were supposed to do, thx bush). We couldn't even deal with a pirate rubber boat that hijacked that HUGE ship containing oil. Its giving them more push to do more extreme things since no one wants to take responsibility on doing something about this issue. There will always be terrorism as long as everyone takes the back seat and just watches, which is what everyone is doing right now.

[Chris]

This is sad and it's fucked up. But you know what, why would any Jew want to be in a country where there is over 200 million Muslims (3rd largest Muslim population). I know if I was a hard core Jew I would not be in any country where the Muslim population is that high, it's like a no brainier.

this i never understood either..

its like a whole black family deciding they want to liive in the most rural part of KKK land.

I mean ya ya ya its a free world, but evidentally the people that reside there don't feel the same about you.

I would never move somewhere qwhere im A) not wanted, b) in danger because i did move there. thats just not smart on anyones part no matter what race or religion.

sad situation tho.

[TrippinFace101]

this war between jews and muslims has been going on for thousands of years and its always muslim radicalists who start shit and kill many innocent people. why do none of these countries who fight for peace do anything? they are scared that muslim radicalists will pop in their country and reek havoc as revenge. USA is supposed to be a super power country whos objective is to fight for freedom for everyone in the world (well thats what were supposed to do, thx bush). We couldn't even deal with a pirate rubber boat that hijacked that HUGE ship containing oil. Its giving them more push to do more extreme things since no one wants to take responsibility on doing something about this issue. There will always be terrorism as long as everyone takes the back seat and just watches, which is what everyone is doing right now.

The reason Jews and Muslims hate each other cause both sides dont want peace.

[igor]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/3540964/Mumbai-attacks-Terrorists-took-cocaine-to-stay-awake-during-assault.html

steroids?? are you fucking kidding me? and how the hell would LSD help them out??? Last time I dropped acid....I didnt even know where I was for quite sometime. these terrorists are getting really ridiculous with their methods.

[igor]

The reason Jews and Muslims hate each other cause both sides dont want peace.

Jews want peace. You dont see any jews causing massive terrorism in the world right? Islamic radicalists just hate everyone thats not like them and have a passionate hate for the jews.

[TrippinFace101]

Jews want peace. You dont see any jews causing massive terrorism in the world right? Islamic radicalists just hate everyone thats not like them and have a passionate hate for the jews.

There radical jews. They even killed there own prime minister. There will be peace one day when everyone is dead fucked up thing say but its a fucked up world we live in.

[igor]

There radical jews. They even killed there own prime minister. There will be peace one day when everyone is dead fucked up thing say but its a fucked up world we live in.

True. But every race and religion has their crazy people. But apparently a majority of muslims are radicals in the Middle East and are not afraid to raise terror in this world. Yeah...its just a fucked up world we live in.

[royallyunique]

But apparently a majority of muslims are radicals in the Middle East and are not afraid to raise terror in this world.

You should really be careful with your attempt as using majority classifications.It's pure ignorance.

[igor]

You should really be careful with your attempt as using majority classifications.It's pure ignorance.

I said "MOST". I have muslim friends who go to masques and all that but totally agree with my views. I dont hate and I dont believe in ignorance. Just stating facts. I had my cousin get blown to pieces in a bus bombing in Israel years ago. Same year I went to visit my family there. You could not blame me to hate them all but I don't.

[Bekim...]

This is sad and it's fucked up. But you know what, why would any Jew want to be in a country where there is over 200 million Muslims (3rd largest Muslim population). I know if I was a hard core Jew I would not be in any country where the Muslim population is that high, it's like a no brainier.

eggs actly
I dont get that either, you didnt see my ass walking around bushwick in 94 thats for sure.

[Gspot555]

this war between jews and muslims has been going on for thousands of years and its always muslim radicalists who start shit and kill many innocent people. why do none of these countries who fight for peace do anything? they are scared that muslim radicalists will pop in their country and reek havoc as revenge. USA is supposed to be a super power country whos objective is to fight for freedom for everyone in the world (well thats what were supposed to do, thx bush). We couldn't even deal with a pirate rubber boat that hijacked that HUGE ship containing oil. Its giving them more push to do more extreme things since no one wants to take responsibility on doing something about this issue. There will always be terrorism as long as everyone takes the back seat and just watches, which is what everyone is doing right now.

why is it the USA that needs to get involved? we should not be fighting in every country.

[Bekim...]

Jews want peace. You dont see any jews causing massive terrorism in the world right? Islamic radicalists just hate everyone thats not like them and have a passionate hate for the jews.

both sides have their faults in the end

[igor]

why is it the USA that needs to get involved? we should not be fighting in every country.

Because we stick our noses everywhere else.

[royallyunique]

I said "MOST". I have muslim friends who go to masques and all that but totally agree with my views. I dont hate and I dont believe in ignorance. Just stating facts.


[QUOTE=igor;2720270]But apparently a majority of muslims are radicals in the Middle East and are not afraid to raise terror in this world. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, it seems my eyes have failed me today.

MOST, MAJORITY, whichever you call it ....it's incorrect. Try looking at a country like Iran, which has over 60 million people and where the liberal youth make up over 50% of the population. The young people are the driving opposition force in that country, against the radical regime. This is a lot more accurate and common than your US based news media sources are telling you my friend.

[igor]

I dont really believe anything the US media has to say as they are all controlled. UK news usually gives more accurate news. No country is gonna fuck with Iran right now. I was primarily talking only about radical muslims. Not ALL muslims.

[Defekted]

I said "MOST". I have muslim friends who go to masques and all that but totally agree with my views. I dont hate and I dont believe in ignorance. Just stating facts.

Some more facts:

1) Pakistan is a nuclear country

2) Investigation still going on by international community, India, and Pakistan regarding the attacks in Mumbai .... no confirmed linkages to any official in the Pakisatani government

3) 10 attackers with ak 47's and granades pulled this off - meaning ANY 10 thugs ANYWHERE can pull this off - it wasnt a nuclear scientist and military commandos - it was a bunch of 22 year olds.

4) If Isreal had to react to every anti semetic attack on a jew around the world, they would be at war with
nearly every country on the map, including here in the States

What happened was extremely sad, not just for the jews that were killed, but for everyone that was killed. A Indian coworker of mine, a very close friend i might add, has a brother who is the head chef at the Oberoi Hotel and she couldnt get a hold of him for days (luckily he survived the attacks, but was trapped in the resturant for over 24 hours and was wounded). It was a senseless act of Terror. There will be more acts of Terror. It is up to law enforcement and intelligence officials in every country to do their best job to stop it. Not the job of Israel to wage war on Pakistan cause ONE Israeli citizen was killed. There were more Americans killed than Israelis and we arent going to war, and there was a shit load more Indians killed and they have FAR MORE BEEF than Isreal ever had with Pakistan and they arent going to far (hope to god for that)...... so its a bit rediculous to say that Israel should bomb pakistan..... senseless really.

[igor]

If the jews who were killed werent purposely tortured, there wouldnt be any singling out. But they were and that just adds more fuel to the fire.

[JUSTIN]

Some more facts:

1) Pakistan is a nuclear country

2) Investigation still going on by international community, India, and Pakistan regarding the attacks in Mumbai .... no confirmed linkages to any official in the Pakisatani government

3) 10 attackers with ak 47's and granades pulled this off - meaning ANY 10 thugs ANYWHERE can pull this off - it wasnt a nuclear scientist and military commandos - it was a bunch of 22 year olds.

4) If Isreal had to react to every anti semetic attack on a jew around the world, they would be at war with
nearly every country on the map, including here in the States

What happened was extremely sad, not just for the jews that were killed, but for everyone that was killed. A Indian coworker of mine, a very close friend i might add, has a brother who is the head chef at the Oberoi Hotel and she couldnt get a hold of him for days (luckily he survived the attacks, but was trapped in the resturant for over 24 hours and was wounded). It was a senseless act of Terror. There will be more acts of Terror. It is up to law enforcement and intelligence officials in every country to do their best job to stop it. Not the job of Israel to wage war on Pakistan cause ONE Israeli citizen was killed. There were more Americans killed than Israelis and we arent going to war, and there was a shit load more Indians killed and they have FAR MORE BEEF than Isreal ever had with Pakistan and they arent going to far (hope to god for that)...... so its a bit rediculous to say that Israel should bomb pakistan..... senseless really.

There are sick motherfckers that have no respect for human life in every country and every religion.

[JustLikeHeaven]

True. But every race and religion has their crazy people. But apparently a majority of muslims are radicals in the Middle East and are not afraid to raise terror in this world. Yeah...its just a fucked up world we live in.

Do u know how many Muslims there are in the world? U are gravely misinformed if u are blind to the reality that the MAJORITY of Muslims are peace-loving people, radicals are called RADICALS for a reason...extremists. Because they do not follow the religion as it was meant to be followed and take things to the EXTREME.
The majority of Muslims despise radical Islam as much as you do, and are certainly upset that the radicals are giving their religion a bad name across the globe.

[igor]

There are sick motherfckers that have no respect for human life in every country and every religion.

Exactly. And as of right now in the present, its caused by crazy muslim fanatics. It's just a pure fact.

[jameznyhc]

this i never understood either..

its like a whole black family deciding they want to liive in the most rural part of KKK land.

I mean ya ya ya its a free world, but evidentally the people that reside there don't feel the same about you.

I would never move somewhere qwhere im A) not wanted, b) in danger because i did move there. thats just not smart on anyones part no matter what race or religion.

sad situation tho.


ok with this logic blacks shouldnt be living in staten island ..bro your racism is insane

[jameznyhc]

Do u know how many Muslims there are in the world? U are gravely misinformed if u are blind to the reality that the MAJORITY of Muslims are peace-loving people, radicals are called RADICALS for a reason...extremists. Because they do not follow the religion as it was meant to be followed and take things to the EXTREME.
The majority of Muslims despise radical Islam as much as you do, and are certainly upset that the radicals are giving their religion a bad name across the globe.

ok where the outrage please find me demonstrations .. i agree the muslims are not asll violent ... even worse is their silence .. that a endorsement ..

[jameznyhc]

Do u know how many Muslims there are in the world? U are gravely misinformed if u are blind to the reality that the MAJORITY of Muslims are peace-loving people, radicals are called RADICALS for a reason...extremists. Because they do not follow the religion as it was meant to be followed and take things to the EXTREME.
The majority of Muslims despise radical Islam as much as you do, and are certainly upset that the radicals are giving their religion a bad name across the globe.

so where the mass protests? ... here or abroad .. secondly explain sharia law??? hey beat your wife ... a-ok

[Defekted]

There are sick motherfckers that have no respect for human life in every country and every religion.

Totally agree.

[jameznyhc]

Some more facts:

1) Pakistan is a nuclear country

2) Investigation still going on by international community, India, and Pakistan regarding the attacks in Mumbai .... no confirmed linkages to any official in the Pakisatani government

3) 10 attackers with ak 47's and granades pulled this off - meaning ANY 10 thugs ANYWHERE can pull this off - it wasnt a nuclear scientist and military commandos - it was a bunch of 22 year olds.

4) If Isreal had to react to every anti semetic attack on a jew around the world, they would be at war with
nearly every country on the map, including here in the States

What happened was extremely sad, not just for the jews that were killed, but for everyone that was killed. A Indian coworker of mine, a very close friend i might add, has a brother who is the head chef at the Oberoi Hotel and she couldnt get a hold of him for days (luckily he survived the attacks, but was trapped in the resturant for over 24 hours and was wounded). It was a senseless act of Terror. There will be more acts of Terror. It is up to law enforcement and intelligence officials in every country to do their best job to stop it. Not the job of Israel to wage war on Pakistan cause ONE Israeli citizen was killed. There were more Americans killed than Israelis and we arent going to war, and there was a shit load more Indians killed and they have FAR MORE BEEF than Isreal ever had with Pakistan and they arent going to far (hope to god for that)...... so its a bit rediculous to say that Israel should bomb pakistan..... senseless really.

its up to moderate muslims all 90 percent to abolish the fanatics ...

oh one thing you left out why were the jews tortured and their women murdered?

[igor]

Do u know how many Muslims there are in the world? U are gravely misinformed if u are blind to the reality that the MAJORITY of Muslims are peace-loving people, radicals are called RADICALS for a reason...extremists. Because they do not follow the religion as it was meant to be followed and take things to the EXTREME.
The majority of Muslims despise radical Islam as much as you do, and are certainly upset that the radicals are giving their religion a bad name across the globe.

I'am just voicing my opinion. I understand what goes on through my family members calling my house to tell us horror stories of extreme muslim radicalists causing havoc in Israel and other parts of the Middle East. It would be totally ignorant for people not to realize what these terrorists background info is and realize they all fit the same description. We can go on and on with different views and opinions. In a dream world, I would have everyone get along with each other no matter what race or religion. Just stay peaceful. Doesnt make me ignorant. We all have our different views.

[jameznyhc]

There are sick motherfckers that have no respect for human life in every country and every religion.

examples

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE=igor;2720270]But apparently a majority of muslims are radicals in the Middle East and are not afraid to raise terror in this world. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, it seems my eyes have failed me today.

MOST, MAJORITY, whichever you call it ....it's incorrect. Try looking at a country like Iran, which has over 60 million people and where the liberal youth make up over 50% of the population. The young people are the driving opposition force in that country, against the radical regime. This is a lot more accurate and common than your US based news media sources are telling you my friend.

so why doesnt the majority rule??? and rid the lunatic islamic fascists ... why are poor iranian women and gays murderd .. and tell us about stoning adulterers to death .. muslim on muslim ... if radicals are so small why arent peaceful muslims controlling shit and voting out the radicals ..

[Defekted]

its up to moderate muslims all 90 percent to abolish the fanatics ...

oh one thing you left out why were the jews tortured and their women murdered?

I was addressing directly the post by this kid about how Israel needs to attack Pakistan. Not what these thug animals did. Indian woman were murded as well as 8 other nationals including americans. These were sadistic young men on drugs intent to cause the greatest amount of deaths possible..... you can do alot of damage with an ak47 and a death wish.....

[igor]

[QUOTE=royallyunique;2720336]

so why doesnt the majority rule??? and rid the lunatic islamic fascists ... why are poor iranian women and gays murderd .. and tell us about stoning adulterers to death .. muslim on muslim ... if radicals are so small why arent peaceful muslims controlling shit and voting out the radicals ..

simple, the radicalists have instilled fear into the people. Nobody is going to go against them. I feel terrible for the innocent people that get killed no matter what religion they are. Everytime I see a woman totally clothed where you only see the slit for the eyes, I think to myself. What a horrible life. You only get one chance to live and you spend your whole life behind a cloth. Terrible huh?

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE=igor;2720270]But apparently a majority of muslims are radicals in the Middle East and are not afraid to raise terror in this world. QUOTE]

I'm sorry, it seems my eyes have failed me today.

MOST, MAJORITY, whichever you call it ....it's incorrect. Try looking at a country like Iran, which has over 60 million people and where the liberal youth make up over 50% of the population. The young people are the driving opposition force in that country, against the radical regime. This is a lot more accurate and common than your US based news media sources are telling you my friend.

so im guessing the young people have the ability to dress western .. when you visted iran do you loook like you do in your avater??? doubt it


secondly why are muslims slaughtering muslims in pakistan and iraq .. why they stop hitting american troops .. see the reason you chose to live here is your country are run by barbaric psycho lunatics .. why dont the modrates seize control and kick some mullahs heads around .. thats why over the years ive learned the only one honest in this forum darius .. we hated each other at one point .. now i got mad fuckin respect for that kid .. i even pm'd you once tried to have a dialogue .. remeber?

[Defekted]

:pullhair
[QUOTE=royallyunique;2720336]

so why doesnt the majority rule??? and rid the lunatic islamic fascists ... why are poor iranian women and gays murderd .. and tell us about stoning adulterers to death .. muslim on muslim ... if radicals are so small why arent peaceful muslims controlling shit and voting out the radicals ..

The majority does rule. If it didnt you would have a 1.6 billion people killing each other and others.

[Benny B]

There are sick motherfckers that have no respect for human life in every country and every religion.

examples

Easter Bunny injures child after getting fed up with his job

The "bunny" was taking pictures with a 9-month-old child when he became angry with his photographer, decided he no longer wanted to work at the mall and put the kid on the ground. "He went to take the child off his lap, and the child ended up injured in the process," says a cop. The child suffered a contusion to the forehead. (Austin American-Statesman)

[royallyunique]

[QUOTE=jameznyhc;2720461]

simple, the radicalists have instilled fear into the people. Nobody is going to go against them. I feel terrible for the innocent people that get killed no matter what religion they are. Everytime I see a woman totally clothed where you only see the slit for the eyes, I think to myself. What a horrible life. You only get one chance to live and you spend your whole life behind a cloth. Terrible huh?


Respond to James buddy....quote mix up.

[metfan85]

Because we stick our noses everywhere else.

well you said we are a superpower and our objective is to fight for freedom.

and that's an outright LIE. Gspot makes a good point that everyone forgets.

If the jews who were killed didn't want to get killed they wouldnt have put themselves in the middle of thousand year long war between hindus and muslims and they wouldve been armed.

They weren't prepared, so now we should have India, Israel and the US focus on Pakistan? You're all falling into the trap the terrorists set. Obviously their objective was to end the truce between Pakistan and India, so Pakistan couldn't help the US fight al qaeda.

[jameznyhc]

I was addressing directly the post by this kid about how Israel needs to attack Pakistan. Not what these thug animals did. Indian woman were murded as well as 8 other nationals including americans. These were sadistic young men on drugs intent to cause the greatest amount of deaths possible..... you can do alot of damage with an ak47 and a death wish.....

i know my point was jews were totured .. i ll take a bullet to the head over torture ... even lebanon remebr the big celebration for that psycho who murdered the women and her baby ??? lovely society .. can you expand on why they love to torture, behead and go for women and children ???

[metfan85]

:pullhair
The majority does rule. If it didnt you would have a 1.6 billion people killing each other and others.

and not only that, the Muslim population of India isn't glorifying these terrorists scum. They refuse to let them be buried in Muslim cemetaries.

[JustLikeHeaven]

I'am just voicing my opinion. I understand what goes on through my family members calling my house to tell us horror stories of extreme muslim radicalists causing havoc in Israel and other parts of the Middle East. It would be totally ignorant for people not to realize what these terrorists background info is and realize they all fit the same description. We can go on and on with different views and opinions. In a dream world, I would have everyone get along with each other no matter what race or religion. Just stay peaceful. Doesnt make me ignorant. We all have our different views.


so where the mass protests? ... here or abroad .. secondly explain sharia law??? hey beat your wife ... a-ok

Not sure where u are getting your info from, but nowhere in Islam does it condone beating women. Secondly, do you honestly think that Muslims protesting against radicalism is going to accomplish anything? We are talking about extremists, terrorists who will kill themselves just to prove a point, they don't care about their own lives, let alone anyone else's. What would that really accomplish. After all, aren't u always attesting that there is no reasoning with terrorists. So, really I'd love to see how you think it would be so simple for other Muslims to stand up against these animals.

And Igor, u are entitled to your opinion, and I can understand your disgust after hearing horror stories from family members. But that still does not make it an accurate statement to assume that the majority of Muslims feel the same way the radicals do.

[JUSTIN]

There are sick motherfckers that have no respect for human life in every country and every religion.

examples

you want examples from throughout history or just the last ten years. Either way i can give you hundeds of names to you............ egyptians that persecuted jews, The Crudaders who killed in the name of christianity,the roman empire and jews that persecuted christians, Adolf hitler, Timothy McVey, The Uni Bomber, Son of Sam, Charles Manson, Northern and Southern Ireland killing over religion, The klu klux klan killing over race, i can go on and on with a list of of sickos, groups, and religions that killed in the name if religion, for their "cause", and just cause they were nuts.

[royallyunique]

so im guessing the young people have the ability to dress western .. when you visted iran do you loook like you do in your avater??? doubt it




secondly why are muslims slaughtering muslims in pakistan and iraq .. why they stop hitting american troops .. see the reason you chose to live here is your country are run by barbaric psycho lunatics .. why dont the modrates seize control and kick some mullahs heads around .. thats why over the years ive learned the only one honest in this forum darius .. we hated each other at one point .. now i got mad fuckin respect for that kid .. i even pm'd you once tried to have a dialogue .. remeber?

Actually, I looked a lot better in Iran that I did in my avatar :heythere

Of course I remember...

You're not going to hear anyone from Iran vouching for the current regime unless they are in complete denial. You also still manage to misconstrue the reality of how the country runs. With that being said, I've stated over and over again that I despise the current regime, will I advocate or agree to the majority of the country or the majority if Islams being extremists and radicals, absolutely not.

[Defekted]

They weren't prepared, so now we should have India, Israel and the US focus on Pakistan? You're all falling into the trap the terrorists set. Obviously their objective was to end the truce between Pakistan and India, so Pakistan couldn't help the US fight al qaeda.

Thats exactly the reasoning behind it. The main objective to this attack (and it has worked) is to end the 5 year truce between India and Pakistan, causing Pakistan to move their forces from the Western border with afganistan (where bin laden and boys are chilling) to the easter border with India in preparing for a war....

that has happened. They want the disputed land of Kashmir in Pakistani countrol and think they can get it once a war breaks out.... lunatics. Two nuclear armed countries.... the worlds worst nightmare.

this has NOTHING to do with Israel. Its unreal how its been 3 pages in, and it took Metfan to state the obvious. But, like clockwork, Jamez has an agenda to flame the muslim/jew threads on NCC......

[igor]

I'am only talking about radicalists. Forget what I wrote "majority of muslims". It's getting taken out of context.

[royallyunique]

:pullhair[QUOTE=jameznyhc;2720461]

The majority does rule. If it didnt you would have a 1.6 billion people killing each other and others.

Def. not my quote above...sounds like something James would say

[JUSTIN]

More examples or just look at this for every major conflict in the 20th century http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatz.htm#RelCon

over 804,000,000 people dead as a result of the below conflicts.

Religious Conflicts (selected)
Generally speaking, in most of the following cases, religion is both
the stated cause of the killing and the only substantive difference
between the two opposing groups. Obviously, there would be many
additional conflicts where religion is just one of several divisions.

Albigensian Crusade, 1208-49
Algeria, 1992-
Baha'is, 1848-54
Bosnia, 1992-95
Boxer Rebellion, 1899-1901
Christian Romans, 30-313 CE
Croatia, 1991-92
English Civil War, 1642-46
Holocaust, 1938-45
Huguenot Wars, 1562-1598
India, 1992-2002
India: Suttee & Thugs
Indo-Pakistani Partition, 1947
Iran, Islamic Republic, 1979-
Iraq, Shiites, 1991-92
Jews, 1348
Jonestown, 1978
Lebanon
1860
1975-92
Martyrs, generally
Molucca Is., 1999-
Mongolia, 1937-39
Northern Ireland, 1974-98
Russian pogroms:
1905-06
1917-22
St. Bartholemew Massacre, 1572
Shang China, ca. 1300-1050 BCE
Shimabara Revolt, Japan 1637-38
Sikh uprising, India, 1984-91
Spanish Inquisition, 1478-1834
Taiping Rebellion, 1850-64
Thirty Years War, 1618-48
Tudor England
Vietnam, 1800s
Witch Hunts, 1400-1800
Xhosa, 1857
In addition, here are a few noteworthy conflicts where dissimilar
ethnic groups fought for primarily religious reasons:
Arab Outbreak, 7th Century CE
Arab-Israeli Wars, 1948-
Al Qaeda, 1993-
Crusades, 1095-1291
Dutch Revolt, 1566-1609
Nigeria, 1990s, 2000s

[Defekted]

I'am only talking about radicalists. Forget what I wrote "majority of muslims". It's getting taken out of context.

As long as you are only talking about radicals than you have no arguement from anyone here I would safely assume.....

It is correct to say that Islam has a serious problem with the radical elements of their society and need moderate and liberals in their society need to work harder to educate these misguided people before they become dangerous to themselves and others.

It is incorrent to say, Israel should bomb Pakistan and go to war for the death and torture of an Israel citizen in India..... thats emotion talking and isnt rational.


Dont forget, far more muslims are killed by muslim extremists than any other religion. It is their problem too.

Also over the course of history, far more jews have been killed by christians than by muslims.

9/11, mumbai, london, madrid, etc.... you are talking about major terror attacks that have killed about 5k people but only carried out by maybe 50-60 people tops..... i hate turning NCC into math class but sometimes i just have to in order to open peoples eyes to just how small a fragment of a population terrorists really are.... it takes a few people to kill many.....that is fact.....

[JUSTIN]

As long as you are only talking about radicals than you have no arguement from anyone here I would safely assume.....

It is correct to say that Islam has a serious problem with the radical elements of their society and need moderate and liberals in their society need to work harder to educate these misguided people before they become dangerous to themselves and others.

It is incorrent to say, Israel should bomb Pakistan and go to war for the death and torture of an Israel citizen in India..... thats emotion talking and isnt rational.


Dont forget, far more muslims are killed by muslim extremists than any other religion. It is their problem too.

Also over the course of history, far more jews have been killed by christians than by muslims.

9/11, mumbai, london, madrid, etc.... you are talking about major terror attacks that have killed about 5k people but only carried out by maybe 50-60 people tops..... i hate turning NCC into math class but sometimes i just have to in order to open peoples eyes to just how small a fragment of a population terrorists really are.... it takes a few people to kill many.....that is fact.....

Im not sure of the exact number but in my understanding Hitler was the one who killed the most jews and he was an atheist.

who else could you be referring to that would be christian

[igor]

I was only speaking of radicalists, I assumed everyone would think the same but got taken out of context. I dont think Israel should go to war, but for god sakes use the special forces and find out who exactly trained these teenagers to do these horrendous acts and arrest them, interrogate them....get as much info from them as possible. That's all I'am saying.

[metfan85]

More examples or just look at this for every major conflict in the 20th century http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstatz.htm#RelCon

over 804,000,000 people dead as a result of the below conflicts.

Religious Conflicts (selected)
Generally speaking, in most of the following cases, religion is both
the stated cause of the killing and the only substantive difference
between the two opposing groups. Obviously, there would be many
additional conflicts where religion is just one of several divisions.

s

the worst wars in history are still those of democracy and the state. WWI and WWII were responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths and the violent takeover of dozens of countries and a billion people.

[Defekted]

Im not sure of the exact number but in my understanding Hitler was the one who killed the most jews and he was an atheist.

who else could you be referring to that would be christian

Nazi Germany, The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition come to mind off hand. Seem to be pretty big ones, no?

[poppa pri]

Not sure where u are getting your info from, but nowhere in Islam does it condone beating women..

Islam doesn't, but the religion of Pri'ism does condone whippin' a bitches ass from time to time lolol


thou i should be serious in my response to all the posts in this forum...i had to lighten up the mood in here a bit lol

[metfan85]

Nazi Germany, The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition come to mind off hand. Seem to be pretty big ones, no?

Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union have killed more Jews than the Crusades and the Inquisition. Both the Nazis and the Soviets were atheist and lived for the state.

[Defekted]

Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union have killed more Jews than the Crusades and the Inquisition. Both the Nazis and the Soviets were atheist and lived for the state.

Dont underestimate the role Luther’s anti-Semitism played and the German churches in helping to foster a general attitude of antipathy and suspicion towards Jews..... which helped a athiest named Hitler turn a country of christians into killing machines......

[JUSTIN]

the worst wars in history are still those of democracy and the state. WWI and WWII were responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths and the violent takeover of dozens of countries and a billion people.

In this case we were talking about religion and killing for what people believe is a "cause"

[Defekted]

Nazi Germany, and the Soviet Union have killed more Jews than the Crusades and the Inquisition. Both the Nazis and the Soviets were atheist and lived for the state.

And I am not trying to turn this thread into a competition on who killed more jews, im just making sure it is known that anti-semitism is evident in all religions, all cultures, in all countries......

and it should be denounced like any other racism or prejudice.

Whenver you have ignorance and hatred in a community, the minority is always the victim..... it takes education to rid the world of ignorance, not bombing.

blacks, gays, muslims, jews, hispanics....... all fall victim to these abuses that sometime lead to murder, toture, etc.....

its sad..... generalizing entire populations isnt the way to go about solving the problem

[JUSTIN]

Nazi Germany, The Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition come to mind off hand. Seem to be pretty big ones, no?

Nazi Germany was led by Hitler who was an atheist
The Crusades were fought mainly against muslims
Spanish Inquisition - agreed they were killed because they were jewish.

[Defekted]

Nazi Germany was led by Hitler who was an atheist
The Crusades were fought mainly against muslims
Spanish Inquisition - agreed they were killed because they were jewish.

The crusades fought to rid the holy land of infidels - ALL INFIDELS. Jews and Muslims alike.

Nazi Germany may have been led by Hitler who was an athiest, but best believe the vast majority of nazis who gladly carried out a systematic campaign to eradicate jews were devout christians. Hilter regularly appointed Nazi Germany's Reich Bishop's of the Protestant Church.

No need to defend any of it.... point is its intolerance, it isnt christianity..... what happened in Mumbai isnt islam, its intolerance.... its ignorance..... its brainwashing......

just stating the fact that one can point to many different points in the timeline and see who did what to who when...... its all nonsense.....

and the usual reaction to a terrible act, is by "the other side" saying "we should kill them all" etc etc etc..... its emotional and irrational......

education is the only way....

[metfan85]

Dont underestimate the role Luther’s anti-Semitism played and the German churches in helping to foster a general attitude of antipathy and suspicion towards Jews..... which helped a athiest named Hitler turn a country of christians into killing machines......

but the Germans weren't killing machines. between 1800 and 1914 the Germans fought three wars.
The Kaiser went to Britain a guest of the King his cousin a week before war in a British navy uniform!


In WWI the Germans tried suing for peace repeatedly and even before WW II, until the night of the Long Knives the Jews were not murdered just kicked out of the country.

Not until 1942 that jews were being murdered. and even in WW II the Germans again sued for peace with Britain, but like 25 years earlier they were rejected.

killing machines is very unfair

[JUSTIN]

The crusades fought to rid the holy land of infidels - ALL INFIDELS. Jews and Muslims alike.

Nazi Germany may have been led by Hitler who was an athiest, but best believe the vast majority of nazis who gladly carried out a systematic campaign to eradicate jews were devout christians. Hilter regularly appointed Nazi Germany's Reich Bishop's of the Protestant Church.

No need to defend any of it.... point is its intolerance, it isnt christianity..... what happened in Mumbai isnt islam, its intolerance.... its ignorance..... its brainwashing......

just stating the fact that one can point to many different points in the timeline and see who did what to who when...... its all nonsense.....

and the usual reaction to a terrible act, is by "the other side" saying "we should kill them all" etc etc etc..... its emotional and irrational......

education is the only way....

lol so it goes back to my statement of there are sick fucks all over the world no matter what country or religion that do not give a shit about human life.

[JustLikeHeaven]

Islam doesn't, but the religion of Pri'ism does condone whippin' a bitches ass from time to time lolol


thou i should be serious in my response to all the posts in this forum...i had to lighten up the mood in here a bit lol

Lol..and that's why I :heart u P.R.I. Lol.

[metfan85]

Islam doesn't, but the religion of Pri'ism does condone whippin' a bitches ass from time to time lolol


thou i should be serious in my response to all the posts in this forum...i had to lighten up the mood in here a bit lol

I wish I knew I how to photoshop ill put a halo behind ur picture and call you the Maha Pri

[Defekted]

lol so it goes back to my statement of there are sick fucks all over the world no matter what country or religion that do not give a shit about human life.

and i go back to my original response to you...... i agree. lol

[Defekted]

but the Germans weren't killing machines. between 1800 and 1914 the Germans fought three wars.
The Kaiser went to Britain a guest of the King his cousin a week before war in a British navy uniform!


In WWI the Germans tried suing for peace repeatedly and even before WW II, until the night of the Long Knives the Jews were not murdered just kicked out of the country.

Not until 1942 that jews were being murdered. and even in WW II the Germans again sued for peace with Britain, but like 25 years earlier they were rejected.

killing machines is very unfair

one day of operation in those camps whose purpose was the methodical killing of millions of innocent people would justify the term "killing machines".....let alone 3-5 years.

[metfan85]

one day of operation in those camps whose purpose was the methodical killing of millions of innocent people would justify the term "killing machines".....let alone 3-5 years.

but like you said it was only a tiny small portion. only the nazi die hards SS aetheist (not believers in Luther) were doing the killing .

just like in the Soviet Union aetheist die hard communists were the ones who killed 100 million people over 80 years

[Chris]

where did this thread go?

im not sure whats going on in it.....

bottom line terrorism sucks, but a few radical nuts are ruining it for the majority of all.
the Islamic religion doesn't support 90% of the things terrorists do, terrorst CONTORT and PERVERSE the religion to their own ideals.

its done with every religion, you have extremists everywhere. same people who thing that christ was born from immaculate conception all the way to killing jews (islamic fundementalism) and getting a life with 100 hoes in heaven.

ONCE AGAIN MAN FAILS.... man created all this nonsense. not god. contrary to what people want to believe.

imagine if everything you believe and fought for was nothing but a lie all along? Imagine if everyting you believe written in some holy scripture put together thousands of years after the people they speak about died and was made up? woudn't at some point in our history common sense poke thru and say hey wait a minute? i think the (insert whatever book you likfe from any religion) bible, quran, torah, etc was meant as a GUIDELINE to live by and not mean to actually be held at face value.... strange we fight over things that make no sense.... over some book from prophets that we don't even have proof really existed or did what they say they did. its all like watching general hospital or hereos and really believing in your heart enough to die for that, Peter petrelli REALLY DOES FLY WHEN THEY GO CUT......

crazy world we live in... sad that people can't think for themselves. well not all most anyhow.

[Defekted]

but like you said it was only a tiny small portion. only the nazi die hards SS aetheist (not believers in Luther) were doing the killing .

just like in the Soviet Union aetheist die hard communists were the ones who killed 100 million people over 80 years

I wouldnt be so quick to say that the top nazi leadership were all athiest.....im sure many were devout christians....

and dont be suprised many of the people commiting the killings of all the people in USSR were in fact religious themselves..... half of the USSR's population were religious....


point is that its foolish to say any one religion has a monopoly on killing for hate..... its a universal tragedy committed everywhere, all the time......

[just b u]

this i never understood either..

its like a whole black family deciding they want to liive in the most rural part of KKK land.

I mean ya ya ya its a free world, but evidentally the people that reside there don't feel the same about you.

I would never move somewhere qwhere im A) not wanted, b) in danger because i did move there. thats just not smart on anyones part no matter what race or religion.

sad situation tho.
learn some history boychik (oh god i gotta stop quoting savage lol) Jews lived in India for several hundred years. India was alwasy populated by many different religions. they always lived peacefully and there was never trouble. even the muslims who lived around that area were "enlightened muslims" who were tolerant and they lived without major problems. Last i checked the biggest religion there is Hindu anyway.

secondly boychik jews lived and still live all around the world. We're hated by some and fine with others. So what does that mean that we need to get out of land where we have our roots and family for ages because there are some in the country who hate us??

What fucking ignorant statement, but not surprised with you.

[just b u]

You should really be careful with your attempt as using majority classifications.It's pure ignorance.
Ok, of course not ALL muslims are raging terrorists who should be found and killed along with their families. but until I see that the Majority (as you say) rise up, really rise up and kick out hamaz, hesbolah, etc and i see a real stop of their crazy idealogies from spreading than i will change my mind and others.

[just b u]

[quote=royallyunique;2720336]

so why doesnt the majority rule??? and rid the lunatic islamic fascists ... why are poor iranian women and gays murderd .. and tell us about stoning adulterers to death .. muslim on muslim ... if radicals are so small why arent peaceful muslims controlling shit and voting out the radicals ..
Exactly!

[just b u]

The crusades fought to rid the holy land of infidels - ALL INFIDELS. Jews and Muslims alike.

Nazi Germany may have been led by Hitler who was an athiest, but best believe the vast majority of nazis who gladly carried out a systematic campaign to eradicate jews were devout christians. Hilter regularly appointed Nazi Germany's Reich Bishop's of the Protestant Church.

No need to defend any of it.... point is its intolerance, it isnt christianity..... what happened in Mumbai isnt islam, its intolerance.... its ignorance..... its brainwashing......

just stating the fact that one can point to many different points in the timeline and see who did what to who when...... its all nonsense.....

and the usual reaction to a terrible act, is by "the other side" saying "we should kill them all" etc etc etc..... its emotional and irrational......

education is the only way....
i disagree, i wish this was the case. to educate you have to catch a person at an early stage when he/she seeks answers to questions of different religions, of tolerance, of understanding. Once you miss that stage and the brainwashing of hatred, deep rooted hatred starts and is beat into you then education will not work after in most cases unfortunately. that's the reality.

[Chris]

learn some history boychik (oh god i gotta stop quoting savage lol) Jews lived in India for several hundred years. India was alwasy populated by many different religions. they always lived peacefully and there was never trouble. even the muslims who lived around that area were "enlightened muslims" who were tolerant and they lived without major problems. Last i checked the biggest religion there is Hindu anyway.

secondly boychik jews lived and still live all around the world. We're hated by some and fine with others. So what does that mean that we need to get out of land where we have our roots and family for ages because there are some in the country who hate us??

What fucking ignorant statement, but not surprised with you.

oyyyeee Vey....

your an idiot at 24 youll be an idiot at 44. theres no changing that.

WE should never come out of your mouth as i feel YOU don't speak for the majority of jewish people you speak for your little whiney clique of jews thats never satisfied with anything in the world. Most jews I know are not like you they HATE jews like you, they think jews like YOU are the reason that jews get a bad REP in the world. all you know how to do is gerenalize. especailly about Muslims.

guess what you putz, its obviously what was before isn't no more. Obviously the whole we live peacefully everywherre forever doesn't stand so much ground anylonger no? ohhhh... next your going to tell me jews are a majority in india....

boychick how grown up of you. did you copy that all by yourself. i applaud you. bravo........ now kill youself please.. thanks..

[Chris]

i disagree, i wish this was the case. to educate you have to catch a person at an early stage when he/she seeks answers to questions of different religions, of tolerance, of understanding. Once you miss that stage and the brainwashing of hatred, deep rooted hatred starts and is beat into you then education will not work after in most cases unfortunately. that's the reality.

what about educating yourself to reality? how's that for a change. I guarantee you if i lined up 20 jews in a room 3 would agree with you idiocy the rest would be embarrassed that you are Jewish.....

religion is a form of control, but you would never see that cause your one of the controlled....

education about other religions is going to stop this? what a wind bag you are.... YOUR BRAINWASHED AT 24 who the fuck are you kidding, hows anyone going to get to your mind its so tainted already...please. spew some more backwards ass shit. dummy.
Deep rotted hatred starts at HOME like your parents taught you to hate Muslims. don't lie you know you do. your a hater just like the rest of everyone else, i cant' stand people like you you think your all above people fucking preacher. In the end your no better than an extremist, you want them dead you hete them because they hate you. You are filled with the EXACT same qualities that make up a terrorist. so how in your sick fucking world do you think your better than someone?

[jameznyhc]

learn some history boychik (oh god i gotta stop quoting savage lol) Jews lived in India for several hundred years. India was alwasy populated by many different religions. they always lived peacefully and there was never trouble. even the muslims who lived around that area were "enlightened muslims" who were tolerant and they lived without major problems. Last i checked the biggest religion there is Hindu anyway.

secondly boychik jews lived and still live all around the world. We're hated by some and fine with others. So what does that mean that we need to get out of land where we have our roots and family for ages because there are some in the country who hate us??

What fucking ignorant statement, but not surprised with you.

:floor:floor

[jameznyhc]

what about educating yourself to reality? how's that for a change. I guarantee you if i lined up 20 jews in a room 3 would agree with you idiocy the rest would be embarrassed that you are Jewish.....

religion is a form of control, but you would never see that cause your one of the controlled....

education about other religions is going to stop this? what a wind bag you are.... YOUR BRAINWASHED AT 24 who the fuck are you kidding, hows anyone going to get to your mind its so tainted already...please. spew some more backwards ass shit. dummy.
Deep rotted hatred starts at HOME like your parents taught you to hate Muslims. don't lie you know you do. your a hater just like the rest of everyone else, i cant' stand people like you you think your all above people fucking preacher. In the end your no better than an extremist, you want them dead you hete them because they hate you. You are filled with the EXACT same qualities that make up a terrorist. so how in your sick fucking world do you think your better than someone?

it went over your head bro ... she was talking indoctrination .. hamas mickey mouse perfect example

[Chris]

mutants... did your parents have any kids that lived?

[jameznyhc]

why is it the USA that needs to get involved? we should not be fighting in every country.

because americans were killed ... you have to respond or it gets worse .. i hope they hunt these animals down and kill everyone in that organization ...thats not waging war on india ... besides the hindus have also suffered from these islamofascists for decades

[ShaE]

i disagree, i wish this was the case. to educate you have to catch a person at an early stage when he/she seeks answers to questions of different religions, of tolerance, of understanding. Once you miss that stage and the brainwashing of hatred, deep rooted hatred starts and is beat into you then education will not work after in most cases unfortunately. that's the reality.
I think the only way to make an ignorant, hateful person change their ways is to educate them about what it is they fear/despise.

You will not change them any other way, and maybe you won't change them at all, but if you do, it will be b/c they learned and realized their baseless views were exactly that, baseless.

You can learn at any age, you see racist parents learn to love their kid's interractial partners, or homophobic parents learn to love their gay children & accept their peers, etc. That's b/c they experienced and learned for themselves that their assumptions and views were not based on sound fact, and not reflective of how they really felt when they experienced it first hand. Granted, the older people get the more ingrained their views can be, but 100% people can change opinions and views at any age. This election has showed me that, people voting across party lines, rural working class whites voting for a black man "rumored" to be muslim, if you can change virginia from red to blue, voting for a black man? you can change anybody's mind lol

[ShaE]

why is it the USA that needs to get involved? we should not be fighting in every country.


because americans were killed ... you have to respond or it gets worse .. i hope they hunt these animals down and kill everyone in that organization ...thats not waging war on india ... besides the hindus have also suffered from these islamofascists for decades

so wait, the only way to respond is to fight?

how many americans need to die for it to be worthy of a "response" which to you means "military engagement"? ever hear of picking your battles? we can't fight every one, every time an american dies.

[darius]

Im not sure of the exact number but in my understanding Hitler was the one who killed the most jews and he was an atheist.

who else could you be referring to that would be christian

Hitler was a Christian

[whatupdoggie]

yes he was

[just b u]

so wait, the only way to respond is to fight?

how many americans need to die for it to be worthy of a "response" which to you means "military engagement"? ever hear of picking your battles? we can't fight every one, every time an american dies.
unfortunately it's the only way to show them that we're not cowards, that we will fight back. That's the only way to deal with radical muslims.if peace talks worked we wouldnt have terrorist attacks growing now.

Shae I dont want war, i dont want young men/women going out there risking their lives. if there was any other way I'd be for it. but the reality is that there is no other way but to take them out.

as for education. lets take for example the palestinians who are taught to despise jews since the day they're born. As you said pple change but if they're surrounded by pple who change their minds, that's not the case with palestinians or with other radical muslims. they're surrounded but pple who are of the same mindest as them. no one is going to teach them different. this is an enormous issue. to reeducate brainwashing you must be taking out of that environment and that not going to happen.

[just b u]

oyyyeee Vey....

your an idiot at 24 youll be an idiot at 44. theres no changing that.

WE should never come out of your mouth as i feel YOU don't speak for the majority of jewish people you speak for your little whiney clique of jews thats never satisfied with anything in the world. Most jews I know are not like you they HATE jews like you, they think jews like YOU are the reason that jews get a bad REP in the world. all you know how to do is gerenalize. especailly about Muslims.

guess what you putz, its obviously what was before isn't no more. Obviously the whole we live peacefully everywherre forever doesn't stand so much ground anylonger no? ohhhh... next your going to tell me jews are a majority in india....

boychick how grown up of you. did you copy that all by yourself. i applaud you. bravo........ now kill youself please.. thanks..
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

[Chris]

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla.

hunney,

what i forgot in life, you still need to learn.

[Greyho]

unfortunately it's the only way to show them that we're not cowards, that we will fight back. That's the only way to deal with radical muslims.if peace talks worked we wouldnt have terrorist attacks growing now.

Shae I dont want war, i dont want young men/women going out there risking their lives. if there was any other way I'd be for it. but the reality is that there is no other way but to take them out.

as for education. lets take for example the palestinians who are taught to despise jews since the day they're born. As you said pple change but if they're surrounded by pple who change their minds, that's not the case with palestinians or with other radical muslims. they're surrounded but pple who are of the same mindest as them. no one is going to teach them different. this is an enormous issue. to reeducate brainwashing you must be taking out of that environment and that not going to happen.

Be an American first, and a jew second. OUr boys are dying over there over that fucking patch of DIRT, still.

[Chris]

be an american first, and a jew second. Our boys are dying over there over that fucking patch of dirt, still.

worddddd

[metfan85]

because americans were killed ... you have to respond or it gets worse .. i hope they hunt these animals down and kill everyone in that organization ...thats not waging war on india ... besides the hindus have also suffered from these islamofascists for decades

Yeah if theyre killed within the borders of the US, not halfway around the world, in a country that has been a war zone for centuries.

The 100 something Americans killed on the Lusitania, after they were told not to board belligerent's ships, was used as casus belli for WWI. WWI where 100,000+Americans were killed. Do you think 100x more deaths than the original act was worth it, because some were kiled?


Hitler was a Christian

:lol OK and the Easter Bunny isn't alive because of an extreme case of gigantism


Be an American first, and a jew second. OUr boys are dying over there over that fucking patch of DIRT, still.

Amen. theyre dying and soon we're going to be dying if we don't leave them to decide the fate of their land.

[Chris]

unfortunately it's the only way to show them that we're not cowards, that we will fight back. That's the only way to deal with radical muslims.if peace talks worked we wouldnt have terrorist attacks growing now.

Shae I dont want war, i dont want young men/women going out there risking their lives. if there was any other way I'd be for it. but the reality is that there is no other way but to take them out.

as for education. lets take for example the palestinians who are taught to despise jews since the day they're born. As you said pple change but if they're surrounded by pple who change their minds, that's not the case with palestinians or with other radical muslims. they're surrounded but pple who are of the same mindest as them. no one is going to teach them different. this is an enormous issue. to reeducate brainwashing you must be taking out of that environment and that not going to happen.

you lie. You want war. you don't have any clue about dealing with issues and its blatant just from these talks.

you want to talk about education, well.. someone educated you to hate muslims no? someone told you in your world its ok to hate someone cause they hate you, blindly. so to me your no better. your surrounded by people with the same mindset, no one is going to teach you different. This is an enormous issue. To reeducate brainwashing you must be taken out of that and environment and its clear to see in your case thats not going to happen.
you want under your breath these muslims killed. your just like them the opposite side of the coin.


you talk about stuff like these radicals don't want to change their minds. How do you know? you are the authority on radical behaviour? Do you think that these radicals feel the same about you? Is what they do condonable no way. But is your rebuttall to their horrible actions with more horror thats suffice?

please.. an eye for an eye leaves you blind.

[Gspot555]

because americans were killed ... you have to respond or it gets worse .. i hope they hunt these animals down and kill everyone in that organization ...thats not waging war on india ... besides the hindus have also suffered from these islamofascists for decades

It is not our country, we should not be going there to attack because people were killed. Every American should know that traveling in these areas is dangerous because of how we are perceived around the world. So if you decide to go there, this may happen.

What we should be doing is making this country stronger and building this country back up, because that is how we will become a stronger country...not going out and picking a fight.

[metfan85]

you lie. You want war. you don't have any clue about dealing with issues and its blatant just from these talks.

you want to talk about education, well.. someone educated you to hate muslims no? someone told you in your world its ok to hate someone cause they hate you, blindly. so to me your no better. your surrounded by people with the same mindset, no one is going to teach you different. This is an enormous issue. To reeducate brainwashing you must be taken out of that and environment and its clear to see in your case thats not going to happen.
you want under your breath these muslims killed. your just like them the opposite side of the coin.


you talk about stuff like these radicals don't want to change their minds. How do you know? you are the authority on radical behaviour? Do you think that these radicals feel the same about you? Is what they do condonable no way. But is your rebuttall to their horrible actions with more horror thats suffice?

please.. an eye for an eye leaves you blind.

It's crazy, that people that after American never having a problem with Muslims (Barbary Pirates, were a pirate problem not Muslim), they suddenly turned on a switch to hate Americans. That also happened to coincide with our overthrowing of Iran's legitimate government for the Shah, supporting Israel blindly, stationing troops on their lands, stationing troops on their HOLY lands, and attacking sovereign nations.

1983, Reagan sent troops to Lebanon, he shouldn't have but he did. What happened? Someone got pissed off enough to kill himself to rid his country of the outsiders. Reagan pulled out, did we have any more attacks from Lebanese? NO.

Tanya, if you think that terrorism isn't a political act, then you're mistaken as are most followers of AIPIC and Benjamin Netanyahu. You guys can sure learn something from Pat Buchanan


“Terrorism is a tactic, a technique, a weapon that fanatics, dictators and warriors have resorted to through history. If, as Clausewitz wrote, war is the continuation of politics by other means, terrorism is the continuation of war by other means.”

[just b u]

Be an American first, and a jew second. OUr boys are dying over there over that fucking patch of DIRT, still.
whether i believe myself to be a jew or american first and my reasons for it is my private choice and none of your business and not the point of this thread.

and if you believe that by us removing our troops will cause the radical muslims to leave our country and pple alone than you're dead wrong. I would agree though that we need to fight in the right places and use different tactics.

[Greyho]

whether i believe myself to be a jew or american first and my reasons for it is my private choice and none of your business and not the point of this thread.

and if you believe that by us removing our troops will cause the radical muslims to leave our country and pple alone than you're dead wrong. I would agree though that we need to fight in the right places and use different tactics.


This is the mentality I reallly do not get. If you are so concerned about your country, move there and join the military. Oh wait, that's right, The UNITED STATES MILITARY is fighting for you, so why would you have to? And if you believe yourself to be a jew first, take the next El Al flight back, and be a jew first.

[metfan85]

whether i believe myself to be a jew or american first and my reasons for it is my private choice and none of your business and not the point of this thread.

and if you believe that by us removing our troops will cause the radical muslims to leave our country and pple alone than you're dead wrong. I would agree though that we need to fight in the right places and use different tactics.

it's completely the point of this thread. Someone advocating the use of American troops, should at least be open with where their loyalties lie.

[jameznyhc]

It is not our country, we should not be going there to attack because people were killed. Every American should know that traveling in these areas is dangerous because of how we are perceived around the world. So if you decide to go there, this may happen.

What we should be doing is making this country stronger and building this country back up, because that is how we will become a stronger country...not going out and picking a fight.

no but AMERICANS FROM BROOKLYN were tortured and murdered .. whose talking war ... go after all these organizations the way israel does

[jameznyhc]

it's completely the point of this thread. Someone advocating the use of American troops, should at least be open with where their loyalties lie.

so she cant be a proud American & a jew??? i dont get it ... bro americans were killed ...

[Chris]

This is the mentality I reallly do not get. If you are so concerned about your country, move there and join the military. Oh wait, that's right, The UNITED STATES MILITARY is fighting for you, so why would you have to? And if you believe yourself to be a jew first, take the next El Al flight back, and be a jew first.


agreed..

sorry but we can't fight terrorism, defend judiasm, be the defender and leader of the entire free world, save darfur, save iraq, save afhghanistan, save Santa and the north pole, fix the global economical crisis, and fix everyone elses shit while our shit falls to peices. at some point in time you have to say.

Isreal. your on your own my friend.

[jameznyhc]

and what the fuck is wrong with hunting down and killing terrorits .. who murdered Americans..whether there jewish christian muslim or hindu ...

[Chris]

so she cant be a proud American & a jew??? i dont get it ... bro americans were killed ...

dude.. americans are killed in a few terror attacks did we go storm other countries like spain and what not? come on. Americans were kill, but you know very well if your in a war zone and your an american your life is in danger. DIdn the family of the reporter in iraq come forth and say this, we love him we miss him but he knew what he was doing. thats like walking into a black neighborhood and yelling fuck you ******s, and then wondering why you wound up dead. come on.

my girls been telling me she wants to goto egypt to see the pyramids. I would be an idiot if i said ok right now. Maybe in 10 years but to goto the middle east as an american is like driving drunk down 86 street your eventually going to hit a train tressel pole.

[jameznyhc]

dude.. americans are killed in a few terror attacks did we go storm other countries like spain and what not? come on. Americans were kill, but you know very well if your in a war zone and your an american your life is in danger. DIdn the family of the reporter in iraq come forth and say this, we love him we miss him but he knew what he was doing. thats like walking into a black neighborhood and yelling fuck you ******s, and then wondering why you wound up dead. come on.

my girls been telling me she wants to goto egypt to see the pyramids. I would be an idiot if i said ok right now. Maybe in 10 years but to goto the middle east as an american is like driving drunk down 86 street your eventually going to hit a train tressel pole.

um since when is mumbai a warzone??? hindus are peaceful and the fuckin terrorists were from pakistan ... hunt them doiwn and kill them ....Even Obama agrees which is why he adding more troops to kill terrorists in afghanistan ... shit McCain wanted nato to commit more troops .. yet the guy you voted for wants more americans in afghanistan than mccain

[Chris]

and what the fuck is wrong with hunting down and killing terrorits .. who murdered Americans..whether there jewish christian muslim or hindu ...

you guys just don't get it. YOU CAN"T HUNT AND KILL IDEAS...

wtf is this such a hard concept to grasp. do you think if you kill those 20 or so that thats it. all your worries are over? lol its commical. what the fuck is so wrong to understand that the tatics you been using don't work....

jewish muslim, hindu or fucking ALF... it doesn't work hunting and killing terrorists DOESN"T WORK.. as you can see ONCE again... as if all these wars and waging has stopped ANYTHING it has not it has only set to incinerate the situation further.

ists so simple math kill 1 for your 1, that get 5, kill 5 for your 5, that gets 10, kill 10 for your 10, that gets 100.

you keep talking like this hunting is working. its not. bro. its not.

[jameznyhc]

you guys just don't get it. YOU CAN"T HUNT AND KILL IDEAS...
wtf is this such a hard concept to grasp. do you think if you kill those 20 or so that thats it. all your worries are over? lol its commical. what the fuck is so wrong to understand that the tatics you been using don't work....

jewish muslim, hindu or fucking ALF... it doesn't work hunting and killing terrorists DOESN"T WORK.. as you can see ONCE again... as if all these wars and waging has stopped ANYTHING it has not it has only set to incinerate the situation further.

ists so simple math kill 1 for your 1, that get 5, kill 5 for your 5, that gets 10, kill 10 for your 10, that gets 100.

you keep talking like this hunting is working. its not. bro. its not.

no shit im talking about murdering terrorist human beings ... the ideology will be there but if you kill them they run ... Iraq is perfect example .. al sadyr ran away ... al qaeda gave up ran away


then why did you vote for barry his promise was to expand the war in afghanistan

[metfan85]

so she cant be a proud American & a jew??? i dont get it ... bro americans were killed ...


"But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American and nothing but an American. … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. … We have room for but one language here and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907



and what the fuck is wrong with hunting down and killing terrorits .. who murdered Americans..whether there jewish christian muslim or hindu ...

because what good will come out of it? A nation is not a private investigator. Obviously after all this military action people still arent scared to attack us. So maybe it's time to rethink our policies no?

[Chris]

um since when is mumbai a warzone??? hindus are peaceful and the fuckin terrorists were from pakistan ... hunt them doiwn and kill them ....Even Obama agrees which is why he adding more troops to kill terrorists in afghanistan ... shit McCain wanted nato to commit more troops .. yet the guy you voted for wants more americans in afghanistan than mccain

once again a diversion from the topic at hand.

Mumbia is on the coast, not very far from pakistan..... Pakistan has been harboring bin laden. Pakistan is a nuclear power. do you need it spelled out for you, or are you looking to save face in these little tiffs to promote your ignorant american pride at all costs, even if it means world war 3?

as usually you see the small details without the big picture.

[Chris]

no shit im talking about murdering terrorist human beings ... the ideology will be there but if you kill them they run ... Iraq is perfect example .. al sadyr ran away ... al qaeda gave up ran away


then why did you vote for barry his promise was to expand the war in afghanistan

again with the barry. have one convo where your not trying to push your weak argument with unnessaary jabs at people....


we are talking about 1 thing stay on topic what i did with my vote has little effect on the fact that your ideal of hunting and killing terrrorist some how works. Its blantant to see it does not. I then don't understand why if something DOES NOT WORK why you would insist on doing it. BUT you voted for bush so.... I can see why doing something that is proven to not work, over and over again, can be your instinctive mindset.

[jameznyhc]

"But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American and nothing but an American. … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. … We have room for but one language here and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907




because what good will come out of it? A nation is not a private investigator. Obviously after all this military action people still arent scared to attack us. So maybe it's time to rethink our policies no?

alex are you confusing judaism with israel??? lol ... secondly americans were killed .. look bro im christian and american ... but one is religion the other is country a piecee of land .. now if she considred herself israeli first thats different

And this was the first time AMERICANS were targeted specifically since 9/11 ... yes bush policy worked ... here obama test

[jameznyhc]

again with the barry. have one convo where your not trying to push your weak argument with unnessaary jabs at people....


we are talking about 1 thing stay on topic what i did with my vote has little effect on the fact that your ideal of hunting and killing terrrorist some how works. Its blantant to see it does not. I then don't understand why if something DOES NOT WORK why you would insist on doing it. BUT you voted for bush so.... I can see why doing something that is proven to not work, over and over again, can be your instinctive mindset.

all im saying is Obama is right .. we need to route out and hunt down the terrorists .. honestly i wish he leans on NATO instead of sending our men .. but he won and thats what he ran on

[jameznyhc]

once again a diversion from the topic at hand.

Mumbia is on the coast, not very far from pakistan..... Pakistan has been harboring bin laden. Pakistan is a nuclear power. do you need it spelled out for you, or are you looking to save face in these little tiffs to promote your ignorant american pride at all costs, even if it means world war 3?

as usually you see the small details without the big picture.

all im saying is mumbai is not a hotbed for terrorism ... its not the gaza strip

[Chris]

[QUOTE=jameznyhc;2722974

And this was the first time AMERICANS were targeted specifically since 9/11 ... yes bush policy worked ... here obama test[/QUOTE]

not true

[Chris]

all im saying is mumbai is not a hotbed for terrorism ... its not the gaza strip

and all im saying is the WORLD is a hot bed for terrorism if you haven't figured that our yet.

yo you guys are reallly slow on the uptake man.

YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS A HOT BED FOR TERRORISM.... believe that my man. believe that.

people act as if there is this space craft that comes drops off terrorist to do evil deeds and then picks them back up to zoom off into the sky....these people are ROOOTED in the tapestry of ALL cultures sleeping and waiting for their call. you guys don't understand. still till this day. still think you can just seek out terrorists and kill them and that will stop terrorism. theres really only 1 way to kill terrorism. and its not with guns. it comlpetely severing the heads (bin laden and the many others) and completely constricting any and ALL monies that fund them. but until we really own up and face pakistan, and face Saudi, and say yo we KNOW you have been funding terrorists and we refuse to do ANY business with you anymore for ANYTHING. then maybe we will make progress..

but...

we won't cause we can't, cause in the end they OWN us. so you can't stare a gift horse in the mouth. so what you get is a lot of little tiffs that mean nothing. and make no ground. waste lives money and make us look WEAKER then when we started out. We don't look strong bush killed that, we look like a bunch of fucking panzys.

[jameznyhc]

not true

yes it is bro .... find me one other instance americans were targeted

[ShaE]

unfortunately it's the only way to show them that we're not cowards, that we will fight back. .
i take issue w/ this as well, you throw around the word "only" as if you know every other means and have deemed it useless.

so, cowards don't retaliate with violence and brave people do? apply that to you life, is the only way to show you're not a coward when somebody wrongs you, attacking back? is there NO OTHER OPTION to show you take the high road, and they take the low road, other than resorting to violence?

when you "fight back" in every instance for fear of looking "cowardly", you often rush into it, and you know what that can result in? looking like a complete ass, showing your weakness, and strengthening the other guys' position. iraq much?

stop and think before you react, and lashing out in response is definitely not always the right course, nor is it always the brave one. sometimes, it's just stupid.

[jameznyhc]

and all im saying is the WORLD is a hot bed for terrorism if you haven't figured that our yet.

yo you guys are reallly slow on the uptake man.

YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS A HOT BED FOR TERRORISM.... believe that my man. believe that.

people act as if there is this space craft that comes drops off terrorist to do evil deeds and then picks them back up to zoom off into the sky....these people are ROOOTED in the tapestry of ALL cultures sleeping and waiting for their call. you guys don't understand. still till this day. still think you can just seek out terrorists and kill them and that will stop terrorism. theres really only 1 way to kill terrorism. and its not with guns. it comlpetely severing the heads (bin laden and the many others) and completely constricting any and ALL monies that fund them. but until we really own up and face pakistan, and face Saudi, and say yo we KNOW you have been funding terrorists and we refuse to do ANY business with you anymore for ANYTHING. then maybe we will make progress..

but...

we won't cause we can't, cause in the end they OWN us. so you can't stare a gift horse in the mouth. so what you get is a lot of little tiffs that mean nothing. and make no ground. waste lives money and make us look WEAKER then when we started out. We don't look strong bush killed that, we look like a bunch of fucking panzys.

look man when americans are killed in believe in justice ... and that justice is called revenge .. yeah sounds barbaric but guess what bro only the strong survive .. whether its jail, your neighborhood, the business communtiy, etc...and chris your point on SA is dead on .. thats why im so pro drill here drill now

[Gspot555]

no but AMERICANS FROM BROOKLYN were tortured and murdered .. whose talking war ... go after all these organizations the way israel does


and what the fuck is wrong with hunting down and killing terrorits .. who murdered Americans..whether there jewish christian muslim or hindu ...


so go get a gun and take a plane and go hunt them and kill them yourself...these people being from Brooklyn makes me want to send more troops to more places around the world?

i feel sorry for the people who were killed but occupying more land is not the answer. it is just a knee jerk reaction caused by Fear.


I protect my family and friends first and foremost.

there are too many problems in this country right now to be committing more money or troops to fight other peoples wars

[jameznyhc]

i take issue w/ this as well, you throw around the word "only" as if you know every other means and have deemed it useless.

so, cowards don't retaliate with violence and brave people do? apply that to you life, is the only way to show you're not a coward when somebody wrongs you, attacking back? is there NO OTHER OPTION to show you take the high road, and they take the low road, other than resorting to violence?

when you "fight back" in every instance for fear of looking "cowardly", you often rush into it, and you know what that can result in? looking like a complete ass, showing your weakness, and strengthening the other guys' position. iraq much?

stop and think before you react, and lashing out in response is definitely not always the right course, nor is it always the brave one. sometimes, it's just stupid.

tell that to Obama maybe he lean on NATO instead of 18 yr olds from america

[jameznyhc]

so go get a gun and take a plane and go hunt them and kill them yourself...these people being from Brooklyn makes me want to send more troops to more places around the world?

i feel sorry for the people who were killed but occupying more land is not the answer. it is just a knee jerk reaction caused by Fear.


I protect my family and friends first and foremost.

there are too many problems in this country right now to be committing more money or troops to fight other peoples wars

Gino im not advocating troops .. im advocating what israel does ... trained assasins.. if these weree your parents you feel differently..these were our people .. americans murderd for being american and/or jewish .. and/or british were targeted

[ShaE]

and if you believe that by us removing our troops will cause the radical muslims to leave our country and pple alone than you're dead wrong. .

how is it you're so sure of what will or will not make us safer?
leave us alone? no, help us become more safe, yes. if you've got beef w/ somebody, a longstanding feud, ideological differences, brutal history, you name it, do you think setting up camp in their front yard & meddling in their family affairs will improve or worsen relations?

no brainer

[jameznyhc]

the libs are arguing with me .. yet obama said HE WOULD KILL AL QAEDA IN PAKISTAN ...im cool with that as long as he lets them know what were gonna do .. pakistanis are getting killed everydau for helping us

[jameznyhc]

how is it you're so sure of what will or will not make us safer?
leave us alone? no, help us become more safe, yes. if you've got beef w/ somebody, a longstanding feud, ideological differences, brutal history, you name it, do you think setting up camp in their front yard & meddling in their family affairs will improve or worsen relations?

no brainer

shae why did al qaeda issue hands off america the past 6 years ??? why did they turn their fight to europe pakistan and SA???

[ShaE]

tell that to Obama maybe he lean on NATO instead of 18 yr olds from america
18 year olds that volunteered to serve when asked? what's your point? i'm saying MILITARY RESPONSE is not always the way to go, and not using violence doesn't make you a coward. sometimes, using tact, and diplomacy, shows your skill not your weakness. we didn't fight one battle of the cold war, and we won, did we not?

tanya, how did we show the russians we meant business, did we wage war and level them? did they think us cowards?

anybody can send others to fight FOR them, that doesn't make THEM brave, but having the guts to stand up and oppose something that many others are clamoring for b/c you believe it's wrong, makes you very brave. i don't think bush was brave to invade iraq, i think he was foolish, and i think obama was courageous to oppose it, not foolish or cowardly. as an example for tanya about what I'm referring to.

[Chris]

09/13/06
http://www.echolist.com/world/2006/september/news169767.html

yemen,
embassy attacks,
somolia,

what about the plots in the city?

you forget these people are constantly plotting against us.

[ShaE]

shae why did al qaeda issue hands off america the past 6 years ??? why did they turn their fight to europe pakistan and SA???
how do we know what they did or did not issue?

why pakistan? b/c they're there for one, and two they have issues with other countries besides us, why wouldn't they attack them too? they got us good, now they're getting us and others around the world pretty good. you expect them to confine their efforts to the US? why?

[jameznyhc]

18 year olds that volunteered to serve when asked? what's your point? i'm saying MILITARY RESPONSE is not always the way to go, and not using violence doesn't make you a coward. sometimes, using tact, and diplomacy, shows your skill not your weakness. we didn't fight one battle of the cold war, and we won, did we not?

tanya, how did we show the russians we meant business, did we wage war and level them? did they think us cowards?

anybody can send others to fight FOR them, that doesn't make THEM brave, but having the guts to stand up and oppose something that many others are clamoring for b/c you believe it's wrong, makes you very brave. i don't think bush was brave to invade iraq, i think he was foolish, and i think obama was courageous to oppose it, not foolish or cowardly. as an example for tanya about what I'm referring to.

and whats your thoughts on Obama expanding the war in afghanistan?...i wish he would lean on NATO .. we do enough as is .. the situation in india ..fuckin americns were killed .. afghanistan all we are doing is protecting afgannis from al qaeda and taliban .. if were gonna fight lets kill ppl who kill us

[jameznyhc]

how do we know what they did or did not issue?

why pakistan? b/c they're there for one, and two they have issues with other countries besides us, why wouldn't they attack them too? they got us good, now they're getting us and others around the world pretty good. you expect them to confine their efforts to the US? why?

we got the documents .. i think alex posted it once also they were found in europe .. but yes the said hands off american .. whats your opinion on the war within jihad ..if you dont know about it ill post tons of articles .. but alot of radicals got very upset with bin laden for hitting us here .. caused a huge faction in the jihadist movem,entr .. read shae read

[Chris]

i take issue w/ this as well, you throw around the word "only" as if you know every other means and have deemed it useless.

so, cowards don't retaliate with violence and brave people do? apply that to you life, is the only way to show you're not a coward when somebody wrongs you, attacking back? is there NO OTHER OPTION to show you take the high road, and they take the low road, other than resorting to violence?

when you "fight back" in every instance for fear of looking "cowardly", you often rush into it, and you know what that can result in? looking like a complete ass, showing your weakness, and strengthening the other guys' position. iraq much?

stop and think before you react, and lashing out in response is definitely not always the right course, nor is it always the brave one. sometimes, it's just stupid.


cowards retaliate with violence... it takes much more strength to take the high road.

it takes more of everything strenght will and brainpower to help than harm. thats is a KNOWN fact. you can snap a neck with mininal pressure.

[Chris]

and whats your thoughts on Obama expanding the war in afghanistan?...i wish he would lean on NATO .. we do enough as is .. the situation in india ..fuckin americns were killed .. afghanistan all we are doing is protecting afgannis from al qaeda and taliban .. if were gonna fight lets kill ppl who kill us

is your argument that weak that you have to consistantly brin Obama into the convo?

[jameznyhc]

09/13/06
http://www.echolist.com/world/2006/september/news169767.html

yemen,
embassy attacks,
somolia,

what about the plots in the city?

you forget these people are constantly plotting against us.

your correct yemen ... our embassy was targeted .. the other hits to be carried out here were by homegrown american muslims sadly

[ShaE]

but he won and thats what he ran on
he actually ran on a lot more than one thing jamez lol

[ShaE]

look man when americans are killed in believe in justice ... and that justice is called revenge ..
actually, revenge is not justice by definition. not even here in america.

yeah, only the strong survive, the strong AND SMART, if you've only got one, you're fucked.

[Chris]

look man when americans are killed in believe in justice ... and that justice is called revenge .. yeah sounds barbaric but guess what bro only the strong survive .. whether its jail, your neighborhood, the business communtiy, etc...and chris your point on SA is dead on .. thats why im so pro drill here drill now

sorry guy justice is not called revenge in your world it is.

in my world your revenge is really just labeled as murder . again.

yes only the strong survive. strong in physicallity strong mentality and strong will. to just attack cause your attacked isn't strength at all. if someone does something fucked up to you in business you then MUST ruin his business? or as a smart strong business man you learn the lesson take the blow and keep it moving.

you can choose to fight every little battle, chances are you will lose the war.

[jameznyhc]

is your argument that weak that you have to consistantly brin Obama into the convo?

not weak at all i use Obama because he is our president elect chris .. his philosphy is dead on when it comes to terrorists .. again i wish he'd ;lean on nato

[Chris]

your correct yemen ... our embassy was targeted .. the other hits to be carried out here were by homegrown american muslims sadly

that brings me back to my point.
Terrorists aren't foreign, they are embedded in our culture.

[Chris]

i feel sorry for the people who were killed but occupying more land is not the answer. it is just a knee jerk reaction caused by Fear.



word and fear is what drives 99% of the people worldwide.

[jameznyhc]

sorry guy justice is not called revenge in your world it is.

in my world your revenge is really just labeled as murder . again.

yes only the strong survive. strong in physicallity strong mentality and strong will. to just attack cause your attacked isn't strength at all. if someone does something fucked up to you in business you then MUST ruin his business? or as a smart strong business man you learn the lesson take the blow and keep it moving.

you can choose to fight every little battle, chances are you will lose the war.



all im saying is kill the fuckers who killed americans ..we have special forces no need for troops

[jameznyhc]

that brings me back to my point.
Terrorists aren't foreign, they are embedded in our culture.

thankgod for the patriot act .. or wed have alot of dead bodies

[ShaE]

Gino im not advocating troops .. im advocating what israel does ... trained assasins.. if these weree your parents you feel differently..these were our people .. americans murderd for being american and/or jewish .. and/or british were targeted
ok, take the trained assassins, and send them after bin laden, he's got 3,000 american lives worth of blood on his hands. him please, thanks.

[ShaE]

thankgod for the patriot act .. or wed have alot of dead bodies
yeah, i'm so glad they wiretapped random people and had infant babies on "watch lists" at the airport, the epitome of safety.

[Chris]

all im saying is kill the fuckers who killed americans ..we have special forces no need for troops

everything should be handled this way. fuck wars send a squad in with a stealth bomber. kill the fucks and be out. without a trace. but......
we gotta make the wholle.. "HOLD ME BACK, im gonna fucki you up drama show about it.... flight jacket walk on a aircraft carrier we wont stop at any cost nonsense swagger"

thats what we should have done in Afhghanistan and in Iraq... and any other motherfuckers that want to test us, having a WAR is nuts. what are we still shooting bow and arrows?

[ShaE]

that brings me back to my point.
Terrorists aren't foreign, they are embedded in our culture.
chris, he just doesn't get it.


TERRORISM has always been around, will always be around, and is A TOOL/ TACTIC used by extremist groups of every kind thru history. We cannot eradicate a TACTIC, we can just try our best to lessen the environment that breeds such extremism, safeguard ourselves and our borders, and improve our working relationships with other nations that want to increase safety so that we can work together to oppose those people that USE TERRORISM throughout the world.

the war on terror might as well be the "war on fear", good luck w/ getting rid of that.

[Chris]

thankgod for the patriot act .. or wed have alot of dead bodies

LMAOOOOOO

what we got all of 200 prisoners in a country of how many in gitmo? give it a break.

[ShaE]

all im saying is kill the fuckers who killed americans ..we have special forces no need for troops
right, so no other response or action other than killing who killed us, great. so what do we do when THEY retaliate for the ones we killed in response to our dead?

if we do NOTHING to break the cycle, all we're going to do is keep RETALIATING, don't you get that?
if you hit me, and i hit you b/c you hit me, you're gonna hit me back again, and so on and so forth until ONE of us decides this isn't working and either walks away, or chooses another route OTHER than "justice by revenge".

[Chris]

chris, he just doesn't get it.


TERRORISM has always been around, will always be around, and is A TOOL/ TACTIC used by extremist groups of every kind thru history. We cannot eradicate a TACTIC, we can just try our best to lessen the environment that breeds such extremism, safeguard ourselves and our borders, and improve our working relationships with other nations that want to increase safety so that we can work together to oppose those people that USE TERRORISM throughout the world.

the war on terror might as well be the "war on fear", good luck w/ getting rid of that.
the

jihad war was started in 1297 by a radical muslim shiite group named the Assasins, in syria...
its been going on since forever. thats a little over 700 years. we haven't beat it yet..... killing people certainly doesn't win that war.....

do we need 700 more years to learn that lesson?

[ShaE]

the

jihad war was started in 1297 by a radical muslim shiite group named the Assasins, in syria...
its been going on since forever. thats a little over 700 years. we haven't beat it yet..... killing people certainly doesn't win that war.....

do we need 700 more years to learn that lesson?
apparently.

you know how you defeat terrorists? DON'T FEAR THEM, don't cater to them, don't tolerate them, don't allow them to alter the very fabric of your society the way they have. that's their long term goal, the short term is killing people, but what they really want is lasting. they want you to hijack freedoms, live in fear, live in hatred of them, and squander your money and lives, weaking your nation, fighting stupidly all over the globe in a game of cat & mouse. bin laden is laughing every day since 9/11 at what we've done to ourselves in the wake of it.

[Chris]

right, so no other response or action other than killing who killed us, great. so what do we do when THEY retaliate for the ones we killed in response to our dead?

if we do NOTHING to break the cycle, all we're going to do is keep RETALIATING, don't you get that?
if you hit me, and i hit you b/c you hit me, you're gonna hit me back again, and so on and so forth until ONE of us decides this isn't working and either walks away, or chooses another route OTHER than "justice by revenge".


agreed.

i think at this point everyone should just put down the guns, bombs molitav cocktails and ski masks. get in a room eat pork, eat swine, drink wine, read from both the quran and torah and kiss each other bang each other have out of wedlock babies and everyone can goto hell together. be merry sinners and let it gooooooo....

causse its so assisne to hate someone cause they hate you. no one takes the higher road this will go on for another 10 centuries.

[Chris]

apparently.

you know how you defeat terrorists? DON'T FEAR THEM, don't cater to them, don't tolerate them, don't allow them to alter the very fabric of your society the way they have. that's their long term goal, the short term is killing people, but what they really want is lasting. they want you to hijack freedoms, live in fear, live in hatred of them, and squander your money and lives, weaking your nation, fighting stupidly all over the globe in a game of cat & mouse. bin laden is laughing every day since 9/11 at what we've done to ourselves in the wake of it.

DAMN now that is on POINT...


they have done exactly what they set out to do, and we let them. That is make us afraid and change our life style. which we have already done. We as americans should say i don't care what you do im not going to live in fear. If anything we should take a page from Isreal for that sense for they will NOT allow the terrorist to alter their lives. we are a bunch of softies the hardest country on the planet curl up in a ball and change everything from 1 terror attack. Isreal has been dealing with these from the 70's...

"I promise myself when i leave this earth it will be with both feet on the floor never knees in the dirt, so you can try my fucker but when i squeeze it hurts we will lose 2 lives yours and mine, give me any amount of time don't let my momma grieve at the funeral parlor dripping tears on her sleeve."

[Gspot555]

thankgod for the patriot act .. or wed have alot of dead bodies

are you serious? lol, they can attack at anytime...are you telling me some crazy people cant just start shooting up a train or detonate a bomb in a building in the city?

can happen anytime with or without a patriot act

[ShaE]

DAMN now that is on POINT...


they have done exactly what they set out to do, and we let them. That is make us afraid and change our life style. which we have already done. We as americans should say i don't care what you do im not going to live in fear. If anything we should take a page from Isreal for that sense for they will NOT allow the terrorist to alter their lives. we are a bunch of softies the hardest country on the planet curl up in a ball and change everything from 1 terror attack. Isreal has been dealing with these from the 70's...

"I promise myself when i leave this earth it will be with both feet on the floor never knees in the dirt, so you can try my fucker but when i squeeze it hurts we will lose 2 lives yours and mine, give me any amount of time don't let my momma grieve at the funeral parlor dripping tears on her sleeve."
call me stubborn, but I refuse to live that way, and i say the same thing to the people that jump on you for not wanting to fork over your rights for bs "security measures".

I'll give you a "security measure", it would make us safer if NOBODY had guns, so let's take away your 2nd amendment rights to do it. HOLY HELL would ensue. But it's ok to trample OTHER rights for bs , false "security"? neither idea would make us safe completely, they'd be power grabs, but it's alright to defend your right to bear arms, but not alright to defend your right to free speech or your right to not be searched w/o a warrant, or be held w/o charge.:disgusted

I am not going to live like a scared, hateful, idiot b/c a bunch of extremists didn't get enough hugs as kids. I'm not going to quietly watch my country go down the shitter for it.

[metfan85]

alex are you confusing judaism with israel??? lol ... secondly americans were killed .. look bro im christian and american ... but one is religion the other is country a piecee of land .. now if she considred herself israeli first thats different

And this was the first time AMERICANS were targeted specifically since 9/11 ... yes bush policy worked ... here obama test

I'm not confusing anything. Tanya, confuses our constitution with some paper that says we must defend Israel at all costs from "radical muslims."

We Christians, don't go around yelling to protect the Papal States from Roman laws, and we don't go around throwing our military to protect the land of the birth of our Lord and Savior. We tried it once, in a rather vain attempt to get back lost land, and it didn't work, and yet we've lived there mostly peacefully for centuries.

So, no, I am not confusing religion with nationality. I just hate how a powerful lobby, the AIPIC Jew, controls our government and gets us into unnecessary foreign conflicts, costs us unnecessary billions, and makes us hated for preaching freedom but propping up an apartheid state.

[Defekted]

apparently.

you know how you defeat terrorists? DON'T FEAR THEM, don't cater to them, don't tolerate them, don't allow them to alter the very fabric of your society the way they have. that's their long term goal, the short term is killing people, but what they really want is lasting. they want you to hijack freedoms, live in fear, live in hatred of them, and squander your money and lives, weaking your nation, fighting stupidly all over the globe in a game of cat & mouse. bin laden is laughing every day since 9/11 at what we've done to ourselves in the wake of it.

You always find a way to shed light in a thread of darkness.

Jamez, 10 people conducted the mumbai attacks. 9 are dead. 1 is getting his ass tortured beyond believe in a mumbai prison as i types this post. They are from pakistani and bangladashi backgrounds. They trained in Kashmir or in Pakistan and were sent by a terrorist group that is based in Kashmir (not aleada, fyi). And as of now there still isnt any hard evidence that links any OFFICIALS in the pakistani government to the kids that did this horror.

So what the fuck do you expect us to do? carry missions in kashmir (the absolute hottest zone in the world, where two nuclear powers are disputing that land as theirs)???? that sounds like your intellgent self.

Or do we let cooler heads prevail, work with the governments of both pakistan and india to crack down on their internal issues..... do you know how many radicals are in pakistan????? you think this will be one mission, in and out, and BAM, revenge is ours??? what a stupid stupid post. Pakistan is getting talibanized and getting more and more radical, with a very weak central government..... and you want to start hitting up low level thugs??? how stupid.

you keep bringing up obama.... be clear, he said if we have actionable intelligence that says bin laden is somewhere, they will act.... HE DID NOT SAY HE WANTS TO "SPECIAL FORCE" OUR WAY THROUGHOUT THE WORLD HITTING UP RADICALS..... its so stupid it doesnt deserve a response....... smarten up man.

you live in a video game.

[metfan85]

apparently.

you know how you defeat terrorists? DON'T FEAR THEM, don't cater to them, don't tolerate them, don't allow them to alter the very fabric of your society the way they have. that's their long term goal, the short term is killing people, but what they really want is lasting. they want you to hijack freedoms, live in fear, live in hatred of them, and squander your money and lives, weaking your nation, fighting stupidly all over the globe in a game of cat & mouse. bin laden is laughing every day since 9/11 at what we've done to ourselves in the wake of it.

I don't think they're laughing at us in the wake of 9/11. I also don't think they're sitting around going "hey habib how many liberal freedom loving pork eaters can we kill with this plan?"

Terror is war by other means. The terrorists stated goal again and again has been to get the infidel off their holy land, by any means necessary. It seems to me that they don't care if we move further into totalitarianism, if it means the age of American Exceptionalism will continue and our presence on their lands will endure.

Might seem repetitive, but Quday isn't saying to Talil "we really got them now, they repealed the 4th and 5th amendment."

The game of cat and mouse is another one of their means, especially since 9/11 didn't work here like it did in Madrid. Then they can only hope we respond stupidly and murder thousands of innocents in the process to turn the majorities opinion away from moderation to the point of suicide to defend their land and people.

by the way to the people- I thought this way myself before I learned better- who thought that Spain voting in a dove to office would mean surrender and further attack. Shouldn't Spain have been fending off the Muslims coming across the Gibraltar Straight by now? Looks like, they maybe really only want us to leave their land. Novel idea?

[ShaE]

I don't think they're laughing at us in the wake of 9/11. I also don't think they're sitting around going "hey habib how many liberal freedom loving pork eaters can we kill with this plan?"

Terror is war by other means. The terrorists stated goal again and again has been to get the infidel off their holy land, by any means necessary. It seems to me that they don't care if we move further into totalitarianism, if it means the age of American Exceptionalism will continue and our presence on their lands will endure.

Might seem repetitive, but Quday isn't saying to Talil "we really got them now, they repealed the 4th and 5th amendment."

The game of cat and mouse is another one of their means, especially since 9/11 didn't work here like it did in Madrid. Then they can only hope we respond stupidly and murder thousands of innocents in the process to turn the majorities opinion away from moderation to the point of suicide to defend their land and people.

by the way to the people- I thought this way myself before I learned better- who thought that Spain voting in a dove to office would mean surrender and further attack. Shouldn't Spain have been fending off the Muslims coming across the Gibraltar Straight by now? Looks like, they maybe really only want us to leave their land. Novel idea?
I most certainly think they are, b/c they got MORE than they ever hoped by 9/11. Killed thousands, terrorized a nation into electing a moron again who then promptly made it EASIER for them to recruit others by making us look the fool in the middle east via a stupid war. We've drained our reputation, our resources, both militarily, financially, and in american lives. We turned on each other, calling some pro america, and others terrorist sympathizers, WE TORTURED, and made hypocrites of ourselves to the world. We squandered every bit of good will there was to have,and have made ourselves to be the ever imposing bully w/o a clue.We swore to capture bin laden, dead or alive, GOT NOTHING, and you don't think he's laughing? Now you tell me, how osama doesn't find that to be everything he'd hoped and more? He succeeded in every respect AND he got away w/ it for going on 8 years.

[metfan85]

I most certainly think they are, b/c they got MORE than they ever hoped by 9/11. Killed thousands, terrorized a nation into electing a moron again who then promptly made it EASIER for them to recruit others by making us look the fool in the middle east via a stupid war. We've drained our reputation, our resources, both militarily, financially, and in american lives. We turned on each other, calling some pro america, and others terrorist sympathizers, WE TORTURED, and made hypocrites of ourselves to the world. We squandered every bit of good will there was to have,and have made ourselves to be the ever imposing bully w/o a clue.We swore to capture bin laden, dead or alive, GOT NOTHING, and you don't think he's laughing? Now you tell me, how osama doesn't find that to be everything he'd hoped and more? He succeeded in every respect AND he got away w/ it for going on 8 years.

yeah but we are continuing our empire and there's no sign of us realizing we can't be the global hegemon. Obama has completely turned his back on the anti-war crowd that got him elected. Saying that up 70,000 troops may be "left behind" in Iraq past 2011.

So if we measure his success not by recruitment by achieving his stated political goals, no he hasn't been a winner, but neither have we. We are stuck in the middle east losing billions and good lives and sure he's getting recruitment, but the occupiers are still in his land, with no sign of leaving anytime soon.

[jameznyhc]

LMAOOOOOO

what we got all of 200 prisoners in a country of how many in gitmo? give it a break.

wer prevented 18 attacks all documented ..

[just b u]

"But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American and nothing but an American. … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag. … We have room for but one language here and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
Theodore Roosevelt 1907




because what good will come out of it? A nation is not a private investigator. Obviously after all this military action people still arent scared to attack us. So maybe it's time to rethink our policies no?
sorry i didnt respond earlier, needed to chill out lol.

Metfan i said nothing about Israel, being a jew is different. If she would of asked me where my allegiance lies between Israel or America then taht would be the right question and there would have been an answer. She asked about my religious beliefs or a country. I also didnt even answer the question and to jump to conclusions is assuming and you know when pple assume they usually make asses of themselves lol.

Now, my religion comes before my country and you know what your ancestors who came here to America also valued their religion more than their country because they obviously moved to keep their religion and not be persecuted or converted.

Another reason for this is because of history. In the past things even in this country have been hostile or uninviting to jews. If, god forbid, a time came when jews would be persecuted in this country i would move. In the past, when during the holocaust the ship was turned away with thousands of jews, even in the 1980's when oil went up and pple here had bumper stickers that said something like "i'll trade a jew for a tank of gas". So this goes without saying, i love this country and the life it's given me. But in the end my religion and my nationality of being a jew comes first.

damn it and i thought i'd keep this to myself lol

[just b u]

Gino im not advocating troops .. im advocating what israel does ... trained assasins.. if these weree your parents you feel differently..these were our people .. americans murderd for being american and/or jewish .. and/or british were targeted
exactly, trained assasins, on the down low. not with might but with wit and brains.

[jameznyhc]

I'm not confusing anything. Tanya, confuses our constitution with some paper that says we must defend Israel at all costs from "radical muslims."

We Christians, don't go around yelling to protect the Papal States from Roman laws, and we don't go around throwing our military to protect the land of the birth of our Lord and Savior. We tried it once, in a rather vain attempt to get back lost land, and it didn't work, and yet we've lived there mostly peacefully for centuries.

So, no, I am not confusing religion with nationality. I just hate how a powerful lobby, the AIPIC Jew, controls our government and gets us into unnecessary foreign conflicts, costs us unnecessary billions, and makes us hated for preaching freedom but propping up an apartheid state.

they dont control shit or iran would have been bombed .. Bush said no for fear of shiite uprising in iraq after the surge .. what do they control ..every man thinks for himself you cant blame others for Bush actions or Obamas actions .. get p[issed at bush .. lol of course Aipac and any human with a heart thinks israel should defend herself yet bush ties her hands .. its ridiculous .. as for our empire why no bases in iraq?? why we leaving?

[jameznyhc]

exactly, trained assasins, on the down low. not with might but with wit and brains.

yep take them out and unlike defeckted said fuck low level thugs go after the planners .. the brains behind the organization .. keep killing them ..cause there no other way to deal with them

[just b u]

I'm not confusing anything. Tanya, confuses our constitution with some paper that says we must defend Israel at all costs from "radical muslims."

We Christians, don't go around yelling to protect the Papal States from Roman laws, and we don't go around throwing our military to protect the land of the birth of our Lord and Savior. We tried it once, in a rather vain attempt to get back lost land, and it didn't work, and yet we've lived there mostly peacefully for centuries.

So, no, I am not confusing religion with nationality. I just hate how a powerful lobby, the AIPIC Jew, controls our government and gets us into unnecessary foreign conflicts, costs us unnecessary billions, and makes us hated for preaching freedom but propping up an apartheid state.
Oh great. I got news for you, everyone controls our government. Not only jews but rich arabs too, what's your point.

and you know that americans have their own motives for helping out Israel too. some say that americans tie israels hands in handling their business as they should. many different views...

ugh whatever, keep on the hate and pointing out the jews what the hell can i say. but seriously from you metfan really disappointing.


and Shae yes terrorism existed all the time but for the most part terrorists existed with a different ideology. most were trying to overthrow a gov't of their country or trying to gain control over their own country. But the ideology of radical muslims is on a whole total different level. They believe that they must kill the infidels, that they must take control over the world, that that's their destiny. That's why they're different and are so much more dangerous.

Americans always forget to study ideologies of groups and that's a big problem imo.

[ShaE]

. But the ideology of radical muslims is on a whole total different level. They believe that they must kill the infidels, that they must take control over the world, that that's their destiny. That's why they're different and are so much more dangerous.

.
So was the ideology and goal of the nazis. sounded very similar to what you just described, believing it was their destiny to rule europe and hopefully the world, killing the "undesirables" of every kind from handicapped people, to homosexuals, to jews.

so why are muslim radicals so different? b/c theirs is based on religion but the goals are the same?
nazis came a hell of a lot closer.

[jameznyhc]

So was the ideology and goal of the nazis. sounded very similar to what you just described, believing it was their destiny to rule europe and hopefully the world, killing the "undesirables" of every kind from handicapped people, to homosexuals, to jews.

so why are muslim radicals so different? b/c theirs is based on religion but the goals are the same?
nazis came a hell of a lot closer.

and the nazis were defeated by FORCE ...

[jameznyhc]

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[jameznyhc]

and look what happened we broke khaddafis will by murdering his family .. all men can be broken at one point ..Reagan knew this.. Bush 2 knew this ..

[metfan85]

they dont control shit or iran would have been bombed .. Bush said no for fear of shiite uprising in iraq after the surge .. what do they control ..every man thinks for himself you cant blame others for Bush actions or Obamas actions .. get p[issed at bush .. lol of course Aipac and any human with a heart thinks israel should defend herself yet bush ties her hands .. its ridiculous .. as for our empire why no bases in iraq?? why we leaving?

Right AIPIC has a heart. If advocating killing innocents and creating an apartheid state constitutes having a heart, then I'd rather be the Tin Man

When are we leaving Iraq? Obama announced he's going to leave 70,000 troops in Iraq after his 16 month deadline.

and look what happened we broke khaddafis will by murdering his family .. all men can be broken at one point ..Reagan knew this.. Bush 2 knew this ..

That's cause Khadaffi was a pussy, not because of force. The day we went into Iraq he dropped his wmd programs.

If force works than why hasn't the drug trade ceased?

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE]Right AIPIC has a heart. If advocating killing innocents and creating an apartheid state constitutes having a heart, then I'd rather be the Tin Man

but israel targets terrorists .. they respect human rights .. and gave up land only to be hit harder when they were there centuries before islam was created ... worry about CAIR bro ..there your rea enemy


When are we leaving Iraq? Obama announced he's going to leave 70,000 troops in Iraq after his 16 month deadline.

i know he flipflopped thankgod he kicked the lefty libs to the curb .. he wasnt anti war .. nader ran on that platform and got 1% of the vote ...barry knows bush was right .. but i believe 2011 all troops are out


That's cause Khadaffi was a pussy, not because of force. The day we went into Iraq he dropped his wmd programs.

eggs actly....he dropped the program after bush took action ..he was scared ..

[metfan85]

sorry i didnt respond earlier, needed to chill out lol.

Metfan i said nothing about Israel, being a jew is different. If she would of asked me where my allegiance lies between Israel or America then taht would be the right question and there would have been an answer. She asked about my religious beliefs or a country. I also didnt even answer the question and to jump to conclusions is assuming and you know when pple assume they usually make asses of themselves lol.

Now, my religion comes before my country and you know what your ancestors who came here to America also valued their religion more than their country because they obviously moved to keep their religion and not be persecuted or converted.

Another reason for this is because of history. In the past things even in this country have been hostile or uninviting to jews. If, god forbid, a time came when jews would be persecuted in this country i would move. In the past, when during the holocaust the ship was turned away with thousands of jews, even in the 1980's when oil went up and pple here had bumper stickers that said something like "i'll trade a jew for a tank of gas". So this goes without saying, i love this country and the life it's given me. But in the end my religion and my nationality of being a jew comes first.

damn it and i thought i'd keep this to myself lol

Well guess what, we don't need people torn between their religions and their country. Especially when their religion and another country is inseparable, and think American should defend that other country, because that is where their true alliances lie.

And you can't believe me for not liking not dual loyalties, why? Is it because I'm a conservative and you conservatism is associated with blind support of Israel, the wars and hatred of Muslims. When that couldn't be further from the truth, conservatism is the opposite. I hate how the GOP has forgotten it's values in favor of a powerful lobby. All powerful lobbies, the Saudis, the Israeli, Wall st etc but that goes without saying.

Conservatism and the GOP has more in common with Sen. Robert A Taft, that's a real conservative not Joe Lieberman, John McCain or Lindsey Graham. And especially not with those snot nose neo-cons Kagan Krauthammer Davis Hansen, Kristol, and the Podhoretz's. They've caused more problems for this country since 9/11 than any other one group. Caused more wars than anyone and all the closest they get to the firing line is when they plug in their laptops.

If you call that hatred and bigotry then make the most of it. But I call it conservatism and caring for MY country first. America First, not Israel, not jews, not muslims.

[jameznyhc]

Well guess what, we don't need people torn between their religions and their country. Especially when their religion and another country is inseparable, and think American should defend that other country, because that is where their true alliances lie.

And you can't believe me for not liking not dual loyalties, why? Is it because I'm a conservative and you conservatism is associated with blind support of Israel, the wars and hatred of Muslims. When that couldn't be further from the truth, conservatism is the opposite. I hate how the GOP has forgotten it's values in favor of a powerful lobby. All powerful lobbies, the Saudis, the Israeli, Wall st etc but that goes without saying.

Conservatism and the GOP has more in common with Sen. Robert A Taft, that's a real conservative not Joe Lieberman, John McCain or Lindsey Graham. And especially not with those snot nose neo-cons Kagan Krauthammer Davis Hansen, Kristol, and the Podhoretz's. They've caused more problems for this country since 9/11 than any other one group. Caused more wars than anyone and all the closest they get to the firing line is when they plug in their laptops.

If you call that hatred and bigotry then make the most of it. But I call it conservatism and caring for MY country first. America First, not Israel, not jews, not muslims.



Bro just listen to Reagan clip .. please since when is conservatism about being a feminist pacifist? and not defending yourself here or abroad when our people are killed are you kidding me ..sounds like left wing hippie propaganda the reason why Reagan left the dems to join Republicans who allways champion individual libertiees and freedoms .. Israel done the world a favor few times especially taking Sadaams WMD's out .. your damn right i hate people that slaughter innocent women and children .. how can you not?? ..the 2 cultures are incomparable ..one based on freedom and rights the other on oppression hatred and prejudice

Secondly there been so many great American jews that contributed to the advancemenmt of America ... you can be a proud American and pro israeli ... i dont know why you cant respect that and get into name calling people with the neocon stuff .. thats exactly what the Enemy counts on ..

Lol since when did krauthammer and kristol have power over the president .. stop blaming reporters who have the right to an opinion ..and are also very pro american

[just b u]

[quote=metfan85;2724249]

but israel targets terrorists .. they respect human rights .. and gave up land only to be hit harder when they were there centuries before islam was created ... worry about CAIR bro ..there your rea enemy



i know he flipflopped thankgod he kicked the lefty libs to the curb .. he wasnt anti war .. nader ran on that platform and got 1% of the vote ...barry knows bush was right .. but i believe 2011 all troops are out



eggsactly....he dropped the program after bush took action ..he was scared ..
exactly. metfan you're focusing on completely the wrong organizations and issues. us jews are a nation of respect, human rights, helping thy neighbor. our organizations do not kill unless attacked, do not kill and rape and torture women or homosexuals, our religion asks for humility, etc.... Unfortunately somehow pple like yourself lose focus on the enemy and a threat to society and turn on jews. and i just dont get it.

and the nazis were defeated by FORCE ...
exaclty

Bro just listen to Reagan clip .. please since when is conservatism about being a feminist pacifist? and not defending yourself here or abroad when our people are killed are you kidding me ..sounds like left wing hippie propaganda the reason why Reagan left the dems to join Republicans who allways champion individual libertiees and freedoms .. Israel done the world a favor few times especially taking Sadaams WMD's out .. your damn right i hate people that slaughter innocent women and children .. how can you not?? ....one based on freedom and rights the other on oppression hatred anthe 2 cultures are incomparable d prejudice

Secondly there been so many great American jews that contributed to the advancemenmt of America ... you can be a proud American and pro israeli ... i dont know why you cant respect that and get into name calling people with the neocon stuff .. thats exactly what the Enemy counts on ..

Lol since when did krauthammer and kristol have power over the president .. stop blaming reporters who have the right to an opinion ..and are also very pro american
jamez you're awesome. i dont even need to respond really lol

[metfan85]

exactly. metfan you're focusing on completely the wrong organizations and issues. us jews are a nation of respect, human rights, helping thy neighbor. our organizations do not kill unless attacked, do not kill and rape and torture women or homosexuals, our religion asks for humility, etc.... Unfortunately somehow pple like yourself lose focus on the enemy and a threat to society and turn on jews. and i just dont get it.

exaclty

jamez you're awesome. i dont even need to respond really lol

You are correct! Like I always said, Jews in ISRAEL are attacked. Jews in INDIA are attacked. I'm not worried about a threat to society in general, I'm worried about a threat to MY society, my country, not someone elses. Ill let John Quincy Adams take over-

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....

She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

[America’s] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.

[metfan85]

Bro just listen to Reagan clip .. please since when is conservatism about being a feminist pacifist? and not defending yourself here or abroad when our people are killed are you kidding me ..sounds like left wing hippie propaganda the reason why Reagan left the dems to join Republicans who allways champion individual libertiees and freedoms .. Israel done the world a favor few times especially taking Sadaams WMD's out .. your damn right i hate people that slaughter innocent women and children .. how can you not?? ..the 2 cultures are incomparable ..one based on freedom and rights the other on oppression hatred and prejudice

Secondly there been so many great American jews that contributed to the advancemenmt of America ... you can be a proud American and pro israeli ... i dont know why you cant respect that and get into name calling people with the neocon stuff .. thats exactly what the Enemy counts on ..

Lol since when did krauthammer and kristol have power over the president .. stop blaming reporters who have the right to an opinion ..and are also very pro american

Left wing hippie propaganda? Yup, John Birch Society, Russell Kirk, Murray Rothbard, Sen. Robert A. Taft, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, bunch of peace love and dope hippies no?

How great is it, that "neo-con" is a slur, looks like the Weekly Standard has been a failure.

Also, why is it that one can be pro-Israeli and pro-American, but according to Hannity, Levine and the other clowns, other immigrants are feared of having dual loyalty? What if one has dual loyalty to Syria and America? I have a feeling the Hannityites wouldn't be quite so quick to embrace that person.

Israel did Israel a favor when it took out Saddam's wmd's. Saddam was a friend of the United States then. What is any different between Churchill's decision to bomb Dresden and target civilians not involved in the war effort and Palestinian's targeting civilians? Either way civilians are targeted and murdered, yet Churchill is the neo-con hero.

Countries have no permanent allies, only temporary friends, and Neil Clark actually makes a great point about our key ally in the Middle East. Should Syria be our top ally? he sure makes a strong case in Enemy of our Enemy (http://neilclark66.blogspot.com/)


It’s a Middle Eastern country where Christian celebrations are official state holidays and civil servants are allowed to take Sunday morning off to go to church, even though Sunday is a working day.

A place where women can smoke and wear make-up and are active in public life.

A country implacably opposed to Islamic fundamentalism and al Qa’ida, and whose security forces helped foil a terrorist attack on the US Embassy.

No, not Israel, Syria.

[jameznyhc]

Left wing hippie propaganda? Yup, John Birch Society, Russell Kirk, Murray Rothbard, Sen. Robert A. Taft, Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, bunch of peace love and dope hippies no?

How great is it, that "neo-con" is a slur, looks like the Weekly Standard has been a failure.

Also, why is it that one can be pro-Israeli and pro-American, but according to Hannity, Levine and the other clowns, other immigrants are feared of having dual loyalty? What if one has dual loyalty to Syria and America? I have a feeling the Hannityites wouldn't be quite so quick to embrace that person.

Israel did Israel a favor when it took out Saddam's wmd's. Saddam was a friend of the United States then. What is any different between Churchill's decision to bomb Dresden and target civilians not involved in the war effort and Palestinian's targeting civilians? Either way civilians are targeted and murdered, yet Churchill is the neo-con hero.

Countries have no permanent allies, only temporary friends, and Neil Clark actually makes a great point about our key ally in the Middle East. Should Syria be our top ally? he sure makes a strong case in Enemy of our Enemy (http://neilclark66.blogspot.com/)


It’s a Middle Eastern country where Christian celebrations are official state holidays and civil servants are allowed to take Sunday morning off to go to church, even though Sunday is a working day.

A place where women can smoke and wear make-up and are active in public life.

A country implacably opposed to Islamic fundamentalism and al Qa’ida, and whose security forces helped foil a terrorist attack on the US Embassy.

No, not Israel, Syria.


Ok once again what does any of this have to do with the Americans that were slaughtered in India .. How is seeking out and killing opeople who murder Americans dual loyalty?? ..

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE=metfan85;2724498]Left wing hippie propaganda? Yup, John Birch Society, Russell Kirk, Murray Rothbard, Sen. Robert A. Taft, Pat Buchanan,


Pat interviewed by Savage agrees we gotta kill al qaeda abroad and discussion of the enmy within ...



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[metfan85]

Ok once again what does any of this have to do with the Americans that were slaughtered in India .. How is seeking out and killing opeople who murder Americans dual loyalty?? ..


2 things- 1) she cares more about Israelis and jews getting killed, as do the neo-cons (yes most neo-cons are jews, make that statement what you will)

2) please don't twist the words to make it seem like one wants to allow American's to be killed.

A few American's killed in a attack with political motives half way around the world does not warrant sending armies or bombing innocents. Especially not when it plays into the terrorists hands, thats so damn obvious that the terrorists wanted the Indians and America to respond with much more force than they used.

Thats why force doesnt always work, if one sits back and thinks about where to strike, they always come out on top. Which fighter wins? the one indiscriminately throwing punches or the one fighting strategically?

Also a nation is not a family, it is not a brotherhood it is a nation, and the state has to do what's best for the state and the nation as a whole. So do a few American's randomly killed abroad as part of a larger terror attack, justify sending millions of dollars and more American soldiers to faraway lands to be killed?

[metfan85]

Pat interviewed by Savage agrees we gotta kill al qaeda abroad and discussion of the enmy within ...



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come on man, attacking al qaeda has nothing to do with Iraq. And calling those subversives who try to destroy the American civilization and replace it with their secular non-traditionalist way of life is not at qaeda.

You think Pat Buchanan thinks otherwise? Then read this, Buchanan pretty much shows how it's Israeli neo-cons that are responsible for the Iraq disaster, as well as turning Iran, Syria and other Middle Eastern nations away when we needed them most- Whose War?
A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest. (http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/mar/24/00007/)

Israel’s “amen corner” has plans for America to fight many wars in the Middle East.

By Patrick J. Buchanan


The principal draftsman is Richard Perle, an aide to Sen. Scoop Jackson, who, in 1970, was overheard on a federal wiretap discussing classified information from the National Security Council with the Israeli Embassy. In Jews and American Politics, published in 1974, Stephen D. Isaacs wrote, “Richard Perle and Morris Amitay command a tiny army of Semitophiles on Capitol Hill and direct Jewish power in behalf of Jewish interests.” In 1983, the New York Times reported that Perle had taken substantial payments from an Israeli weapons manufacturer.

In 1996, with Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, Perle wrote “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” for Prime Minister Netanyahu. In it, Perle, Feith, and Wurmser urged Bibi to ditch the Oslo Accords of the assassinated Yitzak Rabin and adopt a new aggressive strategy:

Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq—an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right—as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions. Jordan has challenged Syria’s regional ambitions recently by suggesting the restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq.

[jameznyhc]

come on man, attacking al qaeda has nothing to do with Iraq. And calling those subversives who try to destroy the American civilization and replace it with their secular non-traditionalist way of life is not at qaeda.

You think Pat Buchanan thinks otherwise? Then read this, Buchanan pretty much shows how it's Israeli neo-cons that are responsible for the Iraq disaster, as well as turning Iran, Syria and other Middle Eastern nations away when we needed them most- Whose War?
A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest. (http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/mar/24/00007/)

Israel’s “amen corner” has plans for America to fight many wars in the Middle East.

By Patrick J. Buchanan


The principal draftsman is Richard Perle, an aide to Sen. Scoop Jackson, who, in 1970, was overheard on a federal wiretap discussing classified information from the National Security Council with the Israeli Embassy. In Jews and American Politics, published in 1974, Stephen D. Isaacs wrote, “Richard Perle and Morris Amitay command a tiny army of Semitophiles on Capitol Hill and direct Jewish power in behalf of Jewish interests.” In 1983, the New York Times reported that Perle had taken substantial payments from an Israeli weapons manufacturer.

In 1996, with Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, Perle wrote “A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm,” for Prime Minister Netanyahu. In it, Perle, Feith, and Wurmser urged Bibi to ditch the Oslo Accords of the assassinated Yitzak Rabin and adopt a new aggressive strategy:

Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq—an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right—as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions. Jordan has challenged Syria’s regional ambitions recently by suggesting the restoration of the Hashemites in Iraq.



Iraq??? this post is about islamic terrorists killing americans ...for the record we now know perle was right about oslo .. ask clinton and netayahu ..second infatada ... perle was dead on .. arafat stabbed clinton in the back

Why do you want to be friends with iran & syria .. wouldnt that make you a dual loyalist to the islamic regime .. if wanting to be alllied with israel makes one dual loyalist

Yeah its israels fault that Sadaam invaded kuwait and tried taking the saudi oil fields .. it was the jews fault that sadaam tried killing Bush and his family .. holy anti jewish paranoia .. and again jews were great contributors to the advancemnt of this country ..

[jameznyhc]

2[QUOTE] things- 1) she cares more about Israelis and jews getting killed, as do the neo-cons (yes most neo-cons are jews, make that statement what you will)

so she dont care about americans?? thats who was slaughtered lol


2) please don't twist the words to make it seem like one wants to allow American's to be killed.

i didnt


A few American's killed in a attack with political motives half way around the world does not warrant sending armies or bombing innocents. Especially not when it plays into the terrorists hands, thats so damn obvious that the terrorists wanted the Indians and America to respond with much more force than they used.

Thats why force doesnt always work, if one sits back and thinks about where to strike, they always come out on top. Which fighter wins? the one indiscriminately throwing punches or the one fighting strategically?

Also a nation is not a family, it is not a brotherhood it is a nation, and the state has to do what's best for the state and the nation as a whole. So do a few American's randomly killed abroad as part of a larger terror attack, justify sending millions of dollars and more American soldiers to faraway lands to be killed

again me and tanya did not advocate troops ..just trained special forces to hunt down the tyerrorists and kill them .. as we agreed the way israel does it ... what you think we want war with india lol

[metfan85]

Iraq??? this post is about islamic terrorists killing americans ...for the record we now know perle was right about oslo .. ask clinton and netayahu ..second infatada ... perle was dead on .. arafat stabbed clinton in the back

Why do you want to be friends with iran & syria .. wouldnt that make you a dual loyalist to the islamic regime .. if wanting to be alllied with israel makes one dual loyalist

Yeah its israels fault that Sadaam invaded kuwait and tried taking the saudi oil fields .. it was the jews fault that sadaam tried killing Bush and his family .. holy anti jewish paranoia .. and again jews were great contributors to the advancemnt of this country ..

The conversation was about Israeli Jews being tortured, and whether or not America blindly supporting Israel is good for America. It seems to me that being dragged around is not good for America.

Of course, this goes back to American's being killed in India because who is the most gung ho for retribution? The neo-con lobby, the people who wont be doing the fighting, schmucks like this guy -http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:gwSl8RWewC7yRM:http://michellemalkin.cachefly.net/hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/frum-tucker.jpg

Having a temporary friend in Syria and a non enemy in Iran is very different than wanting America to defend them and fight their battles at all costs. It's called realism, the only foreign policy that's ever worked - might be why it's called realism.

The question isn't whether jews did good for our society, who cares anyway? The question was should dead Israelis and Americans being killed outside of America, not targeted because they are Americans, should warrant forgetting about the sovereignty of other nations, and the lives of our soldiers. The answer to that is pretty obvious.

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE]The conversation was about Israeli Jews being tortured, and whether or not America blindly supporting Israel is good for America. It seems to me that being dragged around is not good for America.

Since wqhen this entire post was about the torture of jews .. the rabbi and his wife are from brooklyn


Of course, this goes back to American's being killed in India because who is the most gung ho for retribution?

Id say Michael savage beats him out ..Savage advocated bombing Pakistan


Having a temporary friend in Syria and a non enemy in Iran is very different than wanting America to defend them and fight their battles at all costs. It's called realism, the only foreign policy that's ever worked - might be why it's called realism.

Again why isnt wanting to be allied with isral realism .. we didnt strike iran .. shit we wont even let israel strike iran i have no clue what your talkin about..you mean to let iran go nuclear and blow israel off the map is realism? ..lmao



The question isn't whether jews did good for our society, who cares anyway? The question was should dead Israelis and Americans being killed outside of America, not targeted because they are Americans, should warrant forgetting about the sovereignty of other nations, and the lives of our soldiers. The answer to that is pretty obvious.

they certainly were targeted for being american ..jewish ..and british ..angain listen to the reagan clip ..nothing wrong with justice

[metfan85]

Since wqhen this entire post was about the torture of jews .. the rabbi and his wife are from brooklyn

Id say Michael savage beats him out ..Savage advocated bombing Pakistan

Again why isnt wanting to be allied with isral realism .. we didnt strike iran .. shit we wont even let israel strike iran i have no clue what your talkin about

they certainly were targeted for being american ..jewish ..and british ..angain listen to the reagan clip ..nothing wrong with justice

You're right he's more gung ho, because there's only 2 solutions, either wipe out the entire Pashtun people or leave the Middle East, obviously we aren't leaving anytime soon.

Want justice? Stop destroying our republic for a few people that don't understand the risks of leaving America to go to a hotbed of conflict. There's your damn justice, stop fighting wars for people to stupid to not get in the middle.

You attack our soil that's one thing, this is ours you can only protect what's yours.

You want justice, give justice to all the men that died for our supposed freedom and stop expanding the national security state. Stop putting our tentacles into everyone elses business so oil can flow cheaper. Stop telling people how to live their lives. Stop eroding the constitution little by little and that means all our right, even if they don't pertain to you. End the government--security-military-industrial complex and worry about protecting our borders patrolling our shores and keeping subversives out.

[jameznyhc]

You're right he's more gung ho, because there's only 2 solutions, either wipe out the entire Pashtun people or leave the Middle East, obviously we aren't leaving anytime soon.

Want justice? Stop destroying our republic for a few people that don't understand the risks of leaving America to go to a hotbed of conflict. There's your damn justice, stop fighting wars for people to stupid to not get in the middle.

You attack our soil that's one thing, this is ours you can only protect what's yours.

You want justice, give justice to all the men that died for our supposed freedom and stop expanding the national security state. Stop putting our tentacles into everyone elses business so oil can flow cheaper. Stop telling people how to live their lives. Stop eroding the constitution little by little and that means all our right, even if they don't pertain to you. End the government--security-military-industrial complex and worry about protecting our borders patrolling our shores and keeping subversives out.

look well agree to disagree ..besides condi and bush agree with you .. she was begging india not to respond.. all i can say is when americans are killed anywhere for being American and you do not respond (again im not talking war like savage ..im talking about what reagan or israel would do ) ..only leads to more killings ..once your held hostage to your own soil (because the islamic fundamentalists are killing euros, muslims, asians, etc .. the terrorists will only hit you harder .. example = 9/11

[ShaE]

and the nazis were defeated by FORCE ...
b/c they were confined geographically, had a designated army you could engage, and did not fight using guerrilla tactics or hiding unidentifiably amongst citizens. that is why they were defeated by force, b/c they could be.

our army fought their army and won. islamic terrorists do not fight that way, so "defeating them by force" not so practical.

[ShaE]

You are correct! Like I always said, Jews in ISRAEL are attacked. Jews in INDIA are attacked. I'm not worried about a threat to society in general, I'm worried about a threat to MY society, my country, not someone elses. Ill let John Quincy Adams take over-

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.

The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force....

She might become the dictatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit....

[America’s] glory is not dominion, but liberty. Her march is the march of the mind. She has a spear and a shield: but the motto upon her shield is, Freedom, Independence, Peace. This has been her Declaration: this has been, as far as her necessary intercourse with the rest of mankind would permit, her practice.



But would we have even won our independence were it not for the intervention of the French in support of our freedom? Probably not. So there's something to be said for meddling in others' affairs and offering more than moral support when need be.

[jameznyhc]

b/c they were confined geographically, had a designated army you could engage, and did not fight using guerrilla tactics or hiding unidentifiably amongst citizens. that is why they were defeated by force, b/c they could be.

our army fought their army and won. islamic terrorists do not fight that way, so "defeating them by force" not so practical.

I agree .. good last 2 posts shae .. but remember im not talking conventional occupational warfare ..

[jameznyhc]

But would we have even won our independence were it not for the intervention of the French in support of our freedom? Probably not. So there's something to be said for meddling in others' affairs and offering more than moral support when need be.

France definitly helped especially in 1780 when they came led by Comte de Rochambeau....lets not forget spain & the dutch as well

[darius]

OK and the Easter Bunny isn't alive because of an extreme case of gigantism

http://www.lava.net/~hcssc/Hitler.html

Many pious and dishonest Christians claim that Adolf Hitler was an atheist. Their assertion however is an outright lie.

Hitler was a Christian. He was raised as a Catholic and attended Catholic schools. Much of Hitler's philosophy, as detailed in Mein Kampf, came right out of the Bible, and more importantly, from the Christian Socialist Movement of early twentieth-century Europe.

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew from his Christian education, which taught him that Jews were inferior to Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests, and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years.

Hitler took his Christian beliefs for granted and thus concentrated on politics and military power. Through political power Hitler wanted to create a German Reich Church (the Third Reich) to instill dogmatic beliefs in the German populace.

Future generations should understand that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of German Christians, Protestant (Lutheran) Churches and the Vatican.

i'm not saying Hitler was a model Christian by any stretch of the imagination, but let the record show he considered himself one.

[metfan85]

But would we have even won our independence were it not for the intervention of the French in support of our freedom? Probably not. So there's something to be said for meddling in others' affairs and offering more than moral support when need be.

There's nothing to be said. France did it out of pure realism, their enemy at the time was Britain. I fFrance could weaken a centuries long competitor by distracting it, why not?

France was an empire at the time. We never were.

And What did France's support get her? Did it keep Louis XVI's head attached to his body? No. Did it assist the revolutionary Jacobins? No.

[ShaE]

There's nothing to be said. France did it out of pure realism, their enemy at the time was Britain. I fFrance could weaken a centuries long competitor by distracting it, why not?

.
Yes, there is something to be said, and that is, that sometimes it is BENEFICIAL to butt one's nose in and be actively involved in a foreign nation's affairs. As it was in France's case w/ our revolution. I don't think they did it out of the kindness of their hearts, they did it b/c it served THEIR purposes, same as it could serve ours to be involved in SOME affairs overseas.

[metfan85]

Yes, there is something to be said, and that is, that sometimes it is BENEFICIAL to butt one's nose in and be actively involved in a foreign nation's affairs. As it was in France's case w/ our revolution. I don't think they did it out of the kindness of their hearts, they did it b/c it served THEIR purposes, same as it could serve ours to be involved in SOME affairs overseas.

But it wasn't beneficial to France lol All they did was waste millions of dollars and soldiers at a time when France was being ripped apart at the seams internally. Beneficial to the Patriots cause, not beneficial to Frances cause.

America went from being 13 weak nations with some manufacturing and industry, to the strongest power on Earth by being non-interventionist. Our first 150 years, the only blemishes being the Philippines and WW I, we stayed out of other poeple's problems and were the strongest freest country on Earth.

Not a coincidence that as we became a hyperinterventionist empire, America started to weaken.

[ShaE]

But it wasn't beneficial to France lol All they did was waste millions of dollars and soldiers at a time when France was being ripped apart at the seams internally. Beneficial to the Patriots cause, not beneficial to Frances cause.

America went from being 13 weak nations with some manufacturing and industry, to the strongest power on Earth by being non-interventionist. Our first 150 years, the only blemishes being the Philippines and WW I, we stayed out of other poeple's problems and were the strongest freest country on Earth.

Not a coincidence that as we became a hyperinterventionist empire, America started to weaken.
Any defeat and humbling of Britain was beneficial to the French cause.

[jameznyhc]

But it wasn't beneficial to France lol All they did was waste millions of dollars and soldiers at a time when France was being ripped apart at the seams internally. Beneficial to the Patriots cause, not beneficial to Frances cause.

America went from being 13 weak nations with some manufacturing and industry, to the strongest power on Earth by being non-interventionist. Our first 150 years, the only blemishes being the Philippines and WW I, we stayed out of other poeple's problems and were the strongest freest country on Earth.

Not a coincidence that as we became a hyperinterventionist empire, America started to weaken.

our first 100 years women couldnt vote, irish couldnt get work , blacks were enslaved .. freest nation?? ..

after winning in iraq and afghanistan shows were alot stronger todasy than in vietnam .. with no permanent bases in iraq and them having a soverign nation shows were defintly not imperialists or creating an empire .. if anything we learned to get out .. unlike the persian gulf war with bases in SA

[jameznyhc]

http://www.lava.net/~hcssc/Hitler.html

Many pious and dishonest Christians claim that Adolf Hitler was an atheist. Their assertion however is an outright lie.

Hitler was a Christian. He was raised as a Catholic and attended Catholic schools. Much of Hitler's philosophy, as detailed in Mein Kampf, came right out of the Bible, and more importantly, from the Christian Socialist Movement of early twentieth-century Europe.

Hitler's anti-Semitism grew from his Christian education, which taught him that Jews were inferior to Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests, and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years.

Hitler took his Christian beliefs for granted and thus concentrated on politics and military power. Through political power Hitler wanted to create a German Reich Church (the Third Reich) to instill dogmatic beliefs in the German populace.

Future generations should understand that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of German Christians, Protestant (Lutheran) Churches and the Vatican.

i'm not saying Hitler was a model Christian by any stretch of the imagination, but let the record show he considered himself one.


:hmmm:hmmm:yourcrazy

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:


Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:


National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:


Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:


The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:


The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:


Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:


Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)


14th December, 1941, midday:


Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:


There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:


It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)


http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html


he sounds more hateful and secular than gays attacking mormons

[jameznyhc]

Priests and Christian Leaders Killed For Their Religious Beliefs
Hitler wanted not only to conquer all of Europe, but he also wanted to create a new religion and to replace Jesus Christ as a person to be worshipped. Hitler expected his followers to worship the Nazi ideology. Since Catholic priests and Christian pastors were often influential leaders in their community, they were targeted by the Nazis. Thousands of priests and pastors were forced into concentration camps. A special barracks was set up at Dachau, the camp near Munich, Germany, for clergymen. A few survived; some were executed, but most were allowed to die slowly of starvation or disease.


www.holocaustforgotten.com/Newsletter.htm - 18k

[jameznyhc]

nd here the last piece of evidence ..wow this thread is all over the place



Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust

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If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first... Remember the word I spoke to you, 'No servant is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you.
John 15:18-20


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In recent years, the media have accused the Catholic Church of either helping the Nazis or being silent during the Holocaust. As an example, the January 26, 1998 issue of Time magazine on page 20 claims that the Catholic Church apologized for "collaborating with the Nazis during World War II." Even the new Holocaust Museum in New York unjustly criticized Pope Pius XII for being silent during World War II. The Church has recently spoken on this topic.

The Israeli consul, Pinchas E. Lapide, in his book, Three Popes and the Jews (New York: Hawthorn Books, Inc., 1967) critically examines Pope Pius XII. According to his research, the Catholic Church under Pius XII was instrumental in saving 860,000 Jews from Nazi death camps (p. 214). Could Pius have saved more lives by speaking out more forcefully? According to Lapide, the concentration camp prisoners did not want Pius to speak out openly (p. 247). As one jurist from the Nuremberg Trials said on WNBC in New York (Feb. 28, 1964), "Any words of Pius XII, directed against a madman like Hitler, would have brought on an even worse catastrophe... [and] accelerated the massacre of Jews and priests." (Ibid.) Yet Pius was not totally silent either. Lapide notes a book by the Jewish historian, Jenoe Levai, entitled, The Church Did Not Keep Silent (p. 256). He admits that everyone, including himself, could have done more. If we condemn Pius, then justice would demand condemning everyone else. He concludes by quoting from the Talmud that "whosoever preserves one life, it is accounted to him by Scripture as if he had preserved a whole world." With this he claims that Pius XII deserves a memorial forest of 860,000 trees in the Judean hills (pp. 268-9). It should be noted that six million Jews and three million Catholics were killed in the Holocaust.

We must remember that the Holocaust was also anti-Christian. After Hitler revealed his true intentions, the Catholic Church opposed him. Even the famous Albert Einstein testified to that. According to the December 23, 1940 issue of Time magazine on page 38, Einstein said:

Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly.

In another, similar statement, Einstein referred explicitly to the Catholic Church (Lapide, p. 251). This is an extraordinary testimony by an agnostic German scientist of Jewish heritage. Even though there were traitors in her ranks, the Church still opposed the Nazi movement.

The December 23, 1940 issue of Time magazine contains an interesting article about Christians living in Germany, both Catholic and Protestant, who opposed and suffered under the Nazis. On page 38, it claims that by late 1940 over 200,000 Christians were prisoners in Nazi concentration camps, with some estimates as high as 800,000. On page 40, it reports on the Archbishop of Munich, Michael Cardinal von Faulhaber, who led the Catholic opposition in Germany against the Nazis. In an Advent 1933 sermon, he preached: "Let us not forget that we were saved not by German blood but by the blood of Christ!" in response to Nazi racism. In 1934 the Cardinal "narrowly missed a Nazi bullet", while in 1938 a Nazi mob broke the windows in his residence. Even though he was over seventy and in poor health, he still led the Catholic German resistance against Hitler.

Not trusting the new regime, the Vatican signed a Concordat with the Reich on July 20, 1933 in an attempt to protect the Church's rights in Germany. But the Nazis quickly violated its articles. In Lent 1937 Pope Pius XI issued the encyclical "Mit brennender Sorge" (With burning sorrow) with the help of German bishops and Cardinal Pacelli (later Pope Pius XII). It was smuggled into Germany and read in all German Catholic churches at the same hour on Palm Sunday 1937. It did not explicitly mention Hitler or Nazism, but it firmly condemned the Nazi doctrines. On September 20, 1938, Pius XI told German pilgrims that no Christian can take part in anti-Semitism, since spiritually all Christians are Semites.

The recent slander against the Church and Pope Pius XII can be traced back to 1963 with Rolf Hochhuth's play, "The Deputy." In this play Hochhuth criticized Pius for being silent and portrayed his silence as cold indifference. Even though fiction, people took it as fact.

Pope Pius XII was a diplomat and not a radical preacher. He knew that he first needed to preserve Vatican neutrality so that Vatican City could be a refuge for war victims. The International Red Cross also remained neutral. Secondly, he knew how powerless he was against Hitler. Mussolini could quickly shut off electrical power to Vatican Radio during his broadcast (Lapide, p. 256). Finally the Nazis did not tolerate any protest and responded severely. As an example, the Catholic Archbishop of Utrecht in July 1942 protested in a pastoral letter against the Jewish persecutions in Holland. Immediately the Nazis rounded up as many Jews and Catholic non-Aryans as possible and deported them to death camps, including Blessed Edith Stein (Lapide, p. 246). Pius knew that every time he spoke out against Hitler, the Nazis could retaliate against the prisoners. His best attack against the Nazis was quiet diplomacy and behind-the-scenes action. According to The 1996 Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia (V8.01) under Pius XII, "Wishing to preserve Vatican neutrality, fearing reprisals, and realizing his impotence to stop the Holocaust, Pius nonetheless acted on an individual basis to save many Jews and others with church ransoms, documents, and asylum."

The charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that in 1944 he was open to the grace of God which led him into the Catholic faith. As his baptismal name, he took the same one Pius had, Eugenio, as his own. Later Israel Eugenio Zolli wrote a book entitled, Why I Became a Catholic.

But Pope Pius XII was not completely silent either, especially in his Christmas messages. His 1941 and 1942 Christmas messages were both translated and published in The New York Times (Dec. 25, 1941, p. 20 & Dec. 25, 1942, p. 10). To prevent retaliation, he did not refer to Nazism by name, but people of that era still understood him, including the Nazis. According to The New York Times editorial on December 25, 1941 (Late Day edition, p. 24):

The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all... the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a Christian peace.

Also The New York Times editorial on December 25, 1942 (Late Day edition, p. 16) states:

This Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying out of the silence of a continent... Pope Pius expresses as passionately as any leader on our side the war aims of the struggle for freedom when he says that those who aim at building a new world must fight for free choice of government and religious order. They must refuse that the state should make of individuals a herd of whom the state disposes as if they were lifeless things.

Both editorials recognize and highly praise Pius' words against Hitler and totalitarianism.

Now there were traitors in the Church who were Nazis or helped Hitler. There were Catholics who committed sins of bigotry. There were also Catholics, who, out of fear or indifference, sinned through silence. The Church is full of sinners for whom Christ died. We killed Jesus with our sins (Is. 53: 5-6). But Pope Pius XII and many Catholics did not remain "silent." Could 860,000 Jewish lives be saved by "silent" indifference? In our own day, there are people who claim to be Catholic but promote and participate in abortion, assisted-suicide and artificial birth control. In the next century, will the world also falsely accuse the Church and the Pope for being silent during the "culture of death" holocaust?

[metfan85]

our first 100 years women couldnt vote, irish couldnt get work , blacks were enslaved .. freest nation?? ..

after winning in iraq and afghanistan shows were alot stronger todasy than in vietnam .. with no permanent bases in iraq and them having a soverign nation shows were defintly not imperialists or creating an empire .. if anything we learned to get out .. unlike the persian gulf war with bases in SA

With all that, America was still the freest nation on Earth. The Irish were able to get work, that's why they came here. Women weren't allowed to vote anywhere and that blacks were held as slaves is the worst thing this country has ever done, but it never said it was going to be perfect or a democracy. Voting isn't the measure of one's freedom.

The freest nations on Earth were European monarchies until the American republic and the only voting done there was with the sword. In fact a case can be made that voting is immoral because it legitimizes a government dictatorial actions, whereas a unelected, or one elected by a small group of people has to be ever fearful of the people, since he has no political capital as Bush would say.
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Well we're still in Iraq, and Obama is not keeping his promise of removing all troops after 16 months even though the Iraqi government wants us out now and it's relatively quiet.

Us staying there past tomorrow is like knowing there's about to be a gun fight any day now but still staying at the OK Corral to get an extra shot of whiskey for the road.


Any defeat and humbling of Britain was beneficial to the French cause.

Some defeat's of the English might have been beneficial to France's empire, and some might have humbled the English, this one certainly did not.

England stopped fighting for a few reasons and being humbled was NOT one of them, not by a long stretch. After all it was after the English Civil War with America that the sun never set on the British flag. Not the words of a humbled people.

England had wars raging all over the world, a bigger issue to them was South Africa, which was lasted 100 years, not their cousins who got delusions of grandeur.

[jameznyhc]

the irish came to flee the potato famine .. and when they got here they definitlly couldnt get work ..some were enslaved .. there was no civil rights then .. my grandfather dropped the O ..in front of my last name and he arrived in 1909 lol

[metfan85]

I wouldnt be so quick to say that the top nazi leadership were all athiest.....im sure many were devout christians....

and dont be suprised many of the people commiting the killings of all the people in USSR were in fact religious themselves..... half of the USSR's population were religious....


point is that its foolish to say any one religion has a monopoly on killing for hate..... its a universal tragedy committed everywhere, all the time......

and don't be surprised when you read who got killed there and who did the killing-

With Lenin's decree of the separation of church and State on January 20, 1918, nationalization (i.e. daylight robbery) of the church's property began

The time of his visit coincided with the first wave of church persecutions: 11,000 priests, monks, and nuns were arrested, and 9,000 executed. Almost all arrests on religious grounds would end with executions.

In the beginning of 1922, Lenin sent confidential instructions to Trotsky, ordering him to exterminate religion. In the same year, the Bolsheviks organized show trials of the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Tikhon and Metropolitan Benjamin; 2,000 church hierarchs including Benjamin were shot as a result. Tikhon's life was officially spared, but he died shortly of "natural causes."

There is no consensus about the true scale of communist crimes against people of faith. According to some (, the number of Orthodox Churches in Russia fell from 29,584 to less than 500 between 1927 and 1940. Between 1917 and 1935, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested. Of these, 95,000 were put to death.

According to Russian sources (Новая Газета, 13.10.1998) the number of victims of communist atheism is close to one million.

By the beginning of the Second World War almost all clergy, and millions of believers of all religions and denominations, were shot or sent to labor camps. Theological schools were closed, and religious publications prohibited.

[metfan85]

the irish came to flee the potato famine .. and when they got here they definitlly couldnt get work ..some were enslaved .. there was no civil rights then .. my grandfather dropped the O ..in front of my last name and he arrived in 1909 lol
there's so much wrong with that statement I don't even know how to answer. It's like Darius saying Hitler was a Christian

[jameznyhc]

there's so much wrong with that statement I don't even know how to answer. It's like Darius saying Hitler was a Christian

i realize America was the fairest place on earth dont get me wrong .. My family came well after the famine ended for oppurtunity and there were no irish enslaved then .. i also realize slavery was worldwide .. America was alot better than dreadful Ireland at the time still being oppressed by the brits.. no doubt

[metfan85]

i realize America was the fairest place on earth dont get me wrong .. My family came well after the famine ended for oppurtunity .. and we got it .. beytter than dreadful Ireland at the time no doubt
its good they took the O's off, poeple nowadays forget they come to America to be Americans not be Irish, Mexican, Israeli, Afghani etc

With the exception of a few terrible places down south, the government did not have any policy telling certain poeple they couldnt work or had to be slaves or were murdered. They were free to go out west and have all the civil rights guaranteed to them by our Declaration of Independence, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness/property

[darius]

there's so much wrong with that statement I don't even know how to answer. It's like Darius saying Hitler was a Christian

i don't need to say that Hitler was a Christian . . . it's a known fact that he was born and bread a Catholic. did he fall off his holy rocker? of course, but a lot of what he did was done under the banner of Christianity and he expended much effort to use religion as a tool for promoting his tenets on Nazism and towards building a strong, unified Germany.

i'm not being crazy, go read Meine Kampf.

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE]i don't need to say that Hitler was a Christian . . . it's a known fact that he was born and bread a Catholic. did he fall off his holy rocker? of course

Right he became a full fledged atheist .. .. which is why he was so outspoken against christianity and murdered so many christians..