Florida man charged with murder after throwing baby from car

[Dancefloorhewa21]

If this POS doesn't get the death penalty.....
Do you agree he should be sentenced to death, I sure as hell do.

Florida man charged with murder after baby thrown from carStory Highlights
Richard Anthony McTear Jr. threatened "to kill the both of y'all," baby's mother says

McTear, 21, threw child across room, then out of car, authorities say

A motorist found the baby boy on Interstate 275 in Tampa, Florida, around 4:30 a.m.

McTear, who was not related to boy, faces charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping

updated 40 minutes agoNext Article in Crime »


From John Couwels
CNN

(CNN) -- A Florida man has been charged with first-degree murder after authorities say he threw a 3-month-old boy out of a moving car on a Tampa interstate.


Richard Anthony McTear Jr. got in a fight with his ex-girlfriend and left with the child, sheriff's officials say.
2 of 2 Richard Anthony McTear Jr., 21, was arrested Tuesday, hours after a confrontation at his former girlfriend's apartment in which he snatched the child, the Hillsborough County sheriff's office said.

A passing motorist found Emanuel Wesley Murray's body on the interstate. An autopsy determined the child died of blunt trauma to the head, the county medical examiner's office said.

Video on CNN affiliate WFLA TV showed McTear being led out of a Tampa police squad car after his arrest. He ducked his head as TV cameras surrounded him on his walk into a police building.

When asked by reporters if he had thrown the child out of the car window, McTear answered, "It's a dirty game. A dirty game."

McTear is not related to the child, said sheriff's spokeswoman Debbie Carter.

Police had been called to his former girlfriend's apartment about 3:15 a.m. The mother, Jasmine Bedwell, 18, told investigators that McTear had hit her several times and threatened "to kill the both of y'all," the sheriff's department said in a statement announcing the charges.

McTear threw a car seat containing the child across the room during the fight, causing the boy to fall onto the apartment's concrete floor, investigators said. He then picked up the boy and drove off in his blue Chevrolet Impala, throwing the child out while on the interstate, the sheriff's department said.

The child's body was found around 4:30 a.m.

McTear is facing additional charges of burglary with battery, felony battery, aggravated child abuse and

[Defekted]

Sickening

[johnp]

I don't think he should get the death penalty.



They should throw him across the room and then out of the car.

[ShaE]

I'd rather have him spend his life in jail getting raped, beaten, and worked to death than face a few minutes of terror being executed.

He undoubtedly DESERVES to die, I just don't always think that's the "worst" punishment you can inflict on somebody this disgusting.

[eL FryEdo]

torture him

[GOLDEN]

I'd rather have him spend his life in jail getting raped, beaten, and worked to death than face a few minutes of terror being executed.

He undoubtedly DESERVES to die, I just don't always think that's the "worst" punishment you can inflict on somebody this disgusting.

true that son

[Dancefloorhewa21]

I'd rather have him spend his life in jail getting raped, beaten, and worked to death than face a few minutes of terror being executed.

He undoubtedly DESERVES to die, I just don't always think that's the "worst" punishment you can inflict on somebody this disgusting.

You are correct, a long punishement of torture would be much better.
Throw him n a pizza over till hes crispy, take him out rehab him..let a gatar gnaw on him.. fix him up
just keep doing horrible shit to him

I just dont understand how someone can do this.. how the fuk do you say
OH LET ME THROW THIS BABY OUT THE WINDOW LIKE A OLD PEPSI CAN..

[Jen]

ugh..

I just dont understand how a person can do something like that. Hurting a baby?!

[metfan85]

I'd rather have him spend his life in jail getting raped, beaten, and worked to death than face a few minutes of terror being executed.

He undoubtedly DESERVES to die, I just don't always think that's the "worst" punishment you can inflict on somebody this disgusting.

playing devils advocate, but aren't you against torture and Gitmo?

Me personally I'd rather tie him to a stump in the woods and let the snakes and the alligators do the rest.

[jameznyhc]

I'd rather have him spend his life in jail getting raped, beaten, and worked to death than face a few minutes of terror being executed.

He undoubtedly DESERVES to die, I just don't always think that's the "worst" punishment you can inflict on somebody this disgusting.

yet you cried about kalid sheik mohammed being waterboarded ..lmao ..he masterminded 9/11

[jameznyhc]

playing devils advocate, but aren't you against torture and Gitmo?

Me personally I'd rather tie him to a stump in the woods and let the snakes and the alligators do the rest.

my exact thoughts .. stick up for 9/11 mastermind .. yet riff on this guy .. ahh yeah its loneyyyyyyyy leftttt folks

[woo]

yeah shae said jail not gitmo. and she went on to highlight what part of jail she looked forward to mcTear experiencing. this isn't something new... he gets raped and beaten (already a standard), worked to death, ... now if she looks forward to mcTear experiencing then why does she have to also support the torture tactics done by the us military in gitmo?

[jameznyhc]

yeah shae said jail not gitmo. and she went on to highlight what part of jail she looked forward to mcTear experiencing. this isn't something new... he gets raped and beaten (already a standard), worked to death, ... now if she looks forward to mcTear experiencing then why does she have to also support the torture tactics done by the us military in gitmo?

i find it funny how one advocates the rape and beating of one monster .. yet defends the rights and abhors the waterboarding of the man who masterminded 9/11 .. what a joke..

gitmo detainess have more rights and better conditions than our own prison system .. read the reports ..

[woo]

i find it funny how one advocates the rape and beating of one monster .. yet defends the rights and abhors the waterboarding of the man who masterminded 9/11 .. what a joke..

gitmo detainess have more rights and better conditions than our own prison system .. read the reports ..

she is stating what already goes on in jail when u put thousand of men in cells in an institution and hopes he goes through it. anyone going to jail risks getting raped. its possible that they wont go through it. she just hopes he does. waterboarding is an actual torture technique and im against it too bc its being administered through an official payroll. im not paying for that. it's not a fact of jail life...

i dont care about the gitmo prison conditions being so great. if that were true that would be pretty pathetic that US democracy supported communism just to have a place to torture, but are in wars promoting democracy and the enemies are those whom we are torturing. talk about compromising morals lol.
why the fuck should they be great anyways? its jail let them rot. they got put in there for a reason all i can do is hope the american judicial system prevails in sending the right pple in.
we can come up with other ways to get info. the gitmo system isnt great if it were more good would be coming from it. its too controversial to fly so its done! peace! sayonara!

[jameznyhc]

she is stating what already goes on in jail when u put thousand of men in cells in an institution and hopes he goes through it. anyone going to jail risks getting raped. its possible that they wont go through it. she just hopes he does. waterboarding is an actual torture technique and im against it too bc its being administered through an official payroll. im not paying for that. it's not a fact of jail life...

i dont care about the gitmo prison conditions being so great. if that were true that would be pretty pathetic that US democracy supported communism just to have a place to torture, but are in wars promoting democracy and the enemies are those whom we are torturing. talk about compromising morals lol.
why the fuck should they be great anyways? its jail let them rot. they got put in there for a reason all i can do is hope the american judicial system prevails in sending the right pple in.
we can come up with other ways to get info. the gitmo system isnt great if it were more good would be coming from it. its too controversial to fly so its done! peace! sayonara!

i heard it was done yet its still open 5 months later with no plans on what to do with them .. secondly where will we hold the pows of iraq (since obama gonna be there his entire term) and this new ramped up war he starting in afghanistan thats pushing the taliban to maybe overtake pakistan? .. he just told people what they wanted to hear but has no solution

secondly capital punishment has been used in free societys there no inconsistancy with a free people and punishing those who commit terror.murder with execution .. it was used on 3 select individuals ..all terrorists .. again id take being waterboarded everyday of my life 30 times a day vs getting raped once lol

[jameznyhc]

she is stating what already goes on in jail when u put thousand of men in cells in an institution and hopes he goes through it. anyone going to jail risks getting raped. its possible that they wont go through it. she just hopes he does. waterboarding is an actual torture technique and im against it too bc its being administered through an official payroll. im not paying for that. it's not a fact of jail life...

i dont care about the gitmo prison conditions being so great. if that were true that would be pretty pathetic that US democracy supported communism just to have a place to torture, but are in wars promoting democracy and the enemies are those whom we are torturing. talk about compromising morals lol.
why the fuck should they be great anyways? its jail let them rot. they got put in there for a reason all i can do is hope the american judicial system prevails in sending the right pple in.
we can come up with other ways to get info. the gitmo system isnt great if it were more good would be coming from it. its too controversial to fly so its done! peace! sayonara!

thats certainly a great moral argument .. lol

[woo]

i heard it was done yet its still open 5 months later with no plans on what to do with them .. secondly where will we hold the pows of iraq (since obama gonna be there his entire term) and this new ramped up war he starting in afghanistan thats pushing the taliban to maybe overtake pakistan? .. he just told people what they wanted to hear but has no solution

secondly capital punishment has been used in free societys there no inconsistancy with a free people and punishing those who commit terror.murder with execution .. it was used on 3 select individuals ..all terrorists .. again id take being waterboarded everyday of my life 30 times a day vs getting raped once lol

come on jamez ur killing me here lol

[ShaE]

playing devils advocate, but aren't you against torture and Gitmo?

Me personally I'd rather tie him to a stump in the woods and let the snakes and the alligators do the rest.
yes, i'm against agents of the us gov't torturing people and holding them w/ no trial, charges, or evidence shown to them.

i am not against people who have been tried, found guilty, put in prison, and are abused by FELLOW INMATES, which IMO, cannot be avoided if your ass landed in jail.



collossal differences, all of which seem to have escaped both of you. conveniently.

[ShaE]

i find it funny how one advocates the rape and beating of one monster .. yet defends the rights and abhors the waterboarding of the man who masterminded 9/11 .. what a joke..

gitmo detainess have more rights and better conditions than our own prison system .. read the reports ..
what a joke that you have the reading comprehension skills of a 5th grader.

do i really have to explain what's different between a man put in prison legally who gets shit on by his peers there vs. a man held illegally, tortured, and abused by the us federal gov't agencies?


christ jamez THINK THINK THINK

[ShaE]

yet you cried about kalid sheik mohammed being waterboarded ..lmao ..he masterminded 9/11
where did i ever cite him specifically, ever? cried? are you delusional?

i said i'm against waterboarding, and I am.

[eL FryEdo]

all thats missing from this thread now is some god and religion talk about how christian morals might have saved this man

[ShaE]

my exact thoughts .. stick up for 9/11 mastermind .. yet riff on this guy .. ahh yeah its loneyyyyyyyy leftttt folks
find where I did this, post it now, back up your shit jamez, b/c this is out of line.

you're full of it.

[jameznyhc]

find where I did this, post it now, back up your shit jamez, b/c this is out of line.

you're full of it.

youve made many posts defending his rights not to be waterboarded ..

[ShaE]

youve made many posts defending his rights not to be waterboarded ..

I've made many posts saying WATERBOARDING is torture and I do not advocate it.
I have never mentioned him by name, I have never "cried" over his torture, and I have never "stuck up for him"

Being against waterboarding does not= "sticking up for the 9/11 mastermind" so watch it.

That's offensive beyond belief, and you have NO BASIS to say that.
I don't believe we should torture, that doesn't mean I'm "sticking up for criminals", it means I'm against that practice, I feel it's unamerican and below us.

get it?

[ShaE]

youve made many posts defending his rights not to be waterboarded ..
Find me a post where i have referred to him by name, and where I haven't just been saying we should not waterboard these people. Torture is ineffective as a productive interrogation tool.

that is what i have ALWAYS said and believed.

[jameznyhc]

I've made many posts saying WATERBOARDING is torture and I do not advocate it.
I have never mentioned him by name, I have never "cried" over his torture, and I have never "stuck up for him"

Being against waterboarding does not= "sticking up for the 9/11 mastermind" so watch it.

That's offensive beyond belief, and you have NO BASIS to say that.
I don't believe we should torture, that doesn't mean I'm "sticking up for criminals", it means I'm against that practice, I feel it's unamerican and below us.

get it?

what do you call rape and beatings of this american that you wished for? .. how can one decry waterboarding ? ..thats an offense to intelligence .. if your against waterboarding khalid or any other terrorists do you wish they are beaten and raped instead? i dont follow

[jameznyhc]

Find me a post where i have referred to him by name, and where I haven't just been saying we should not waterboard these people. Torture is ineffective as a productive interrogation tool.

that is what i have ALWAYS said and believed.

we dont know that but with Obama not releasing the documents Cheney called for to be released and his decision to drop this investigation and not prosecute bush officials i would say Cheneys called his bluff .. lets see the memos first ..without them you cant argue the info was useless ..if it was i suspect Obama release all the documents ..after all what happened to transparency ..lets go the whole story ... agreed?

[woo]

You are correct, a long punishement of torture would be much better.
Throw him n a pizza over till hes crispy, take him out rehab him..let a gatar gnaw on him.. fix him up
just keep doing horrible shit to him

I just dont understand how someone can do this.. how the fuk do you say
OH LET ME THROW THIS BABY OUT THE WINDOW LIKE A OLD PEPSI CAN..

exactly what jail is, even if u never get raped

[ShaE]

what do you call rape and beatings of this american that you wished for? .. how can one decry waterboarding ? ..thats an offense to intelligence .. if your against waterboarding khalid or any other terrorists do you wish they are beaten and raped instead? i dont follow
please read my post about that carefully jamez.

if one inmate abuses another inmate in prison, that's ok by me. they've both been charged, tried, found guilty and are committing offenses against one another. if a guard starts abusing them, then i have a problem.

i do not support the abuse of prisoners by US AGENTS, i do not support the use of torture by us agents, and i certainly do not support the holding of men w/no charges, trial, or forum for their case.

HUGE differences between people in our penal system and prisoners in gitmo, huge differences in WHO is doing the abuse, and huge differences in the fact anybody in our jail has had his day in court and lost.

nobody in gitmo had any such day. prisoners are not torturing one another there, american agents are doing the torturing, completely unacceptable.

obviously you don't follow.

[jameznyhc]

exactly what jail is, even if u never get raped

not for all for some they love it and choose to go back when given second and third chances .. if you have power in jail its not so bad.. you can work-out, go to library, watch television, socialize, you never go hungary, good medical care ..i guess some would choose that over freedom and resposnsibilty which takes a level a discipline .. especially repeat offenders .. subconciously they want to be locked up i would believe or they would change their behavior .. jail is a choice ..unless your framed

[ShaE]

we dont know that but with Obama not releasing the documents Cheney called for to be released and his decision to drop this investigation and not prosecute bush officials i would say Cheneys called his bluff .. lets see the memos first ..without them you cant argue the info was useless ..if it was i suspect Obama release all the documents ..after all what happened to transparency ..lets go the whole story ... agreed?
i'll take the word of experienced interrogators, and the word of those that have experienced torture themselves, and my own common sense, which says, you torture a man, he will tell you whatever you want to know, regardless of its truthfulness.

it's ineffective, it demeans us, and it endangers our troops further. you will never change my mind on that, it's UNAMERICAN in my eyes and that will never change.

[woo]

not for all for some they love it and choose to go back when given second and third chances .. if you have power in jail its not so bad.. you can work-out, go to library, watch television, socialize, you never go hungary, good medical care ..i guess some would choose that over freedom and resposnsibilty which takes a level a discipline .. especially repeat offenders .. subconciously they want to be locked up i would believe or they would change their behavior .. jail is a choice ..unless your framed

we are taking about gitmo dood. american prison is living hell... esp in alaska lol there's an idea!

[woo]

not for all for some they love it and choose to go back when given second and third chances .. if you have power in jail its not so bad.. you can work-out, go to library, watch television, socialize, you never go hungary, good medical care ..i guess some would choose that over freedom and resposnsibilty which takes a level a discipline .. especially repeat offenders .. subconciously they want to be locked up i would believe or they would change their behavior .. jail is a choice ..unless your framed

that's funny bc most pple commit crimes in hopes of not getting caught.

[jameznyhc]

please read my post about that carefully jamez.

if one inmate abuses another inmate in prison, that's ok by me. they've both been charged, tried, found guilty and are committing offenses against one another. if a guard starts abusing them, then i have a problem.

i do not support the abuse of prisoners by US AGENTS, i do not support the use of torture by us agents, and i certainly do not support the holding of men w/no charges, trial, or forum for their case.

HUGE differences between people in our penal system and prisoners in gitmo, huge differences in WHO is doing the abuse, and huge differences in the fact anybody in our jail has had his day in court and lost.

nobody in gitmo had any such day. prisoners are not torturing one another there, american agents are doing the torturing, completely unacceptable.

obviously you don't follow.

so your not against torture or rape or beatings .. only the people administer them.. so if the guards turn a blind eye to torture, rape and beatings your cool with that ?? ..what about non violent offenders? how can you advocate such a reckless policy? ..who would protect them .. shae your a walking contradiction .. this thread is so hypocrticial its a joke

[ShaE]

I have no idea how on earth anybody is relating gitmo to us prisons.

for one, anybody in a US prison has had a trial, knows their charges, presented their evidence, and has the opportunity to appeal their case. they are in prison because they were tried and found GUILTY

prisoners in gitmo have had no trial, do not know the evidence against them, do not have defense, have been held UNTRIED, and have no options to appeal anything.

in us prisons, inmates are the source of most abuse of other inmates. they beat, rape, and kill one another amongst themselves. this is of course, still illegal, but cannnot entirely be stopped by the guards.

in gitmo, it's us officials and agents doing the abuse, and they say it's legal now, courtesy of the bush administration. nice.

how on earth can anybody look at my views on what goes on in US prisons and think it can be in ANY WAY COMPARABLE to gitmo? the conditions, offenders, etc. are COMPLETELY opposite in every way that matters.

jamez is just so eager to point out "hypocrisy" he has no clue the situations are night and day.

[woo]

so your not against torture or rape or beatings .. only the people administer them.. so if the guards turn a blind eye to torture, rape and beatings your cool with that ?? ..what about non violent offenders? how can you advocate such a reckless policy? ..who would protect them .. shae your a walking contradiction .. this thread is so hypocrticial its a joke

she is against it in society. once pple are in jail they are amongst themselves. she is looking forward for a prisoner to be surrounded by "their own kind". again, jail sucks and anyone who enjoys it can have it lol. its a feeble price to pay IMO

[jameznyhc]

that's funny bc most pple commit crimes in hopes of not getting caught.

conciously id agree ... im talking about what drives them to risk their freedom in the first place ..especially when given second and thrid and fourth chances ..

[ShaE]

so your not against torture or rape or beatings .. only the people administer them.. so if the guards turn a blind eye to torture, rape and beatings your cool with that ?? ..what about non violent offenders? how can you advocate such a reckless policy? ..who would protect them .. shae your a walking contradiction .. this thread is so hypocrticial its a joke
I'm not "against" what goes on in us prisons, no i'm not. If one guy in a cell beats the other guy in his cell, well, tough life. Prison is hard. Guards try to stop it, but they can't stop all of it, it's part of being in jail, it's violent in there.

If the guards were walking around doing it 100% i'd be against it, they have no right to do that by law.
If they turn a blind eye, no I don't agree, but it's crazy to think guards can police what goes on in every cell, in every corner, all day every day. not possible, i don't believe prison guards are CAPABLE of preventing all prison violence. fact of life. and no guards are petitioning to make violence, murder, and rape in jails legal are they? no. they are not the offenders. it's still against the law, they still try to stop it, but they are unable to prevent all crimes from happening in such an environment.

yea, walking contradiction lmao, your powers of understanding jamez are very limited, that's why you always have to keep it "simple".

[woo]

I have no idea how on earth anybody is relating gitmo to us prisons.

for one, anybody in a US prison has had a trial, knows their charges, presented their evidence, and has the opportunity to appeal their case. they are in prison because they were tried and found GUILTY

prisoners in gitmo have had no trial, do not know the evidence against them, do not have defense, have been held UNTRIED, and have no options to appeal anything.

in us prisons, inmates are the source of most abuse of other inmates. they beat, rape, and kill one another amongst themselves. this is of course, still illegal, but cannnot entirely be stopped by the guards.

in gitmo, it's us officials and agents doing the abuse, and they say it's legal now, courtesy of the bush administration. nice.

how on earth can anybody look at my views on what goes on in US prisons and think it can be in ANY WAY COMPARABLE to gitmo? the conditions, offenders, etc. are COMPLETELY opposite in every way that matters.

jamez is just so eager to point out "hypocrisy" he has no clue the situations are night and day.


u know what tho? if they are the same then why bother crippling a beautiful country for it?

[jameznyhc]

she is against it in society. once pple are in jail they are amongst themselves. she is looking forward for a prisoner to be surrounded by "their own kind". again, jail sucks and anyone who enjoys it can have it lol. its a feeble price to pay IMO

gitmo not society..its filled with those who we know commited mass murder, maimings, etc .. we had 750 originally we released close to 500 .. we now have the 250 hardcore jihadists left ..

[woo]

conciously id agree ... im talking about what drives them to risk their freedom in the first place ..especially when given second and thrid and fourth chances ..

so then make a conscious decision :hmmm

[ShaE]

gitmo not society..its filled with those who we know commited mass murder, maimings, etc .. we had 750 originally we released close to 500 .. we now have the 250 hardcore jihadists left ..
yea, except for all the people in there that are innocent.

like i said, if we KNOW, then they should've been tried, sentenced, and punished 5+ years ago. what's the fkin holdup?

try them, find these people guilty if it's so easy to prove, then you can put them to death for all i care. just DO IT LEGITIMATELY. don't hold them, torture them, and INSIST they're guilty but you don't have to actually show it.

why create all the bullshit if you could just show w/o shadow of a doubt their guilt from the start?

[jameznyhc]

I'm not "against" what goes on in us prisons, no i'm not. If one guy in a cell beats the other guy in his cell, well, tough life. Prison is hard. Guards try to stop it, but they can't stop all of it, it's part of being in jail, it's violent in there.

If the guards were walking around doing it 100% i'd be against it, they have no right to do that by law.
If they turn a blind eye, no I don't agree, but it's crazy to think guards can police what goes on in every cell, in every corner, all day every day. not possible, i don't believe prison guards are CAPABLE of preventing all prison violence. fact of life. and no guards are petitioning to make violence, murder, and rape in jails legal are they? no. they are not the offenders. it's still against the law, they still try to stop it, but they are unable to prevent all crimes from happening in such an environment.

yea, walking contradiction lmao, your powers of understanding jamez are very limited, that's why you always have to keep it "simple".

there you ignorance speaking again..how did berbard kerik reduce violence and even to this day in rikers island by 90% ..how did keriks policies protect men who made mistakes such as a drug purchase from being raped by a violent subhuman lowlife .. yet you condone and wish for that cause they are inmates who were charged with crimes ..how do you know they are all guilty? like the gitmo detainees you stick up for ?.. lol your insane .. if you dont know id love to explain to you keriks absolutly brilliant strategy ...

[woo]

gitmo not society..its filled with those who we know commited mass murder, maimings, etc .. we had 750 originally we released close to 500 .. we now have the 250 hardcore jihadists left ..

im sure US can be "pro democarcy" *cough cough* without paralyzing a whole nation of people and find another place to put these people in, and follow those laws accordingly.
they are clearly using gitmo to evade laws. fuck that... find a way to acomplish the bullshit, albeit if its reinstated in the future, SOMEWHERE ELSE WITHOUT SUFFOCATING AN ENTIRE NATION. instead of swimming in the caribbean for training they can ski and enclose an entire mountain!!!

the mountain range is the reason our war on terror is so pathetic. and if other nations are so concerned let them pull some slack.

[Defekted]

Its one thing to say "I wish (insert rapist, terrorist, murderer, pedophile - HERE) would get pinned up to a stake a raped by a huge NFL offensive linemen, and then right after get fed to the Lions and then keep him alive just enough so that we can light him on fire right after, than spread his ashes in a porta-potty" which we would all say with NO problem cause we hate the offender so much for doing something so terrible, like masterminding a mass murder terrorist attack or throwing a baby out a window on the highway. An entirely other thing to say "I approve that we should torture that person who is under US custody (police, CIA, whatever), as punishment for what he did".........

one is wishing out of emotion (which is no problem) and the other is endorsing the United States of America to break the law while being a nation of laws. We have signed two treaties (geneva convention and convention against torture), and we have to be held to our signature. Im right with Shae in my disgust for this person and dream of the worst way to hurt the guy in my anger, but best belive if I find out the the police that are holding him beat him to a pulp and stuck a broomstick up his ass, I will speak out against it. Not in defense of the monster, but in defense of our morals.

[ShaE]

yea my ignorance jamez, you can't grasp even the simplest differences in this debate. all this time and you still do not understand WHY i'm against torture by the us gov't, as evidenced by the fact you think I should be against inmates brutalizing other inmates lmao

laughable.

i condone? wish for? no, i just don't lose sleep over guilty men in prison getting what they deserve at the hands of the others incarcerated. if you are found guilty, jail is going to be an unpleasant experience, point blank.

what i find appalling is people subjected to the horrors of prison, w/o having been charged or found guilty, w/o representation, who are being abused not by peers but by THE AUTHORITIES of our gov't who are not merely being secretive, but who claim they have a legal right to torture.

that's disgusting to me, who is doing it, how they're doing it, and who they're doing it to.
some lowlife in jail wants to beat somebody, well, i'm not surprised. the cia tortures prisoners ? i hold the cia A BIT ABOVE your common everyday us JAILBIRD.

maybe you don't.

[jameznyhc]

yea, except for all the people in there that are innocent.

like i said, if we KNOW, then they should've been tried, sentenced, and punished 5+ years ago. what's the fkin holdup?

try them, find these people guilty if it's so easy to prove, then you can put them to death for all i care. just DO IT LEGITIMATELY. don't hold them, torture them, and INSIST they're guilty but you don't have to actually show it.

why create all the bullshit if you could just show w/o shadow of a doubt their guilt from the start?

so the 500 they released were innocent? not at all ..they released the guilty as well and picked them back up on the battlefield .. pows are ot american prisoners .. nor are they afoorded the same rights .. terrorists are not soldiers in centralized army .. why did they choose to hold the other 250?

[ShaE]

Its one thing to say "I wish (insert rapist, terrorist, murderer, pedophile - HERE) would get pinned up to a stake a raped by a huge NFL offensive linemen, and then right after get fed to the Lions and then keep him alive just enough so that we can light him on fire right after, than spread his ashes in a porta-potty" which we would all say with NO problem cause we hate the offender so much for doing something so terrible, like masterminding a mass murder terrorist attack or throwing a baby out a window on the highway. An entirely other thing to say "I approve torture under US custody we should torture that person, as punishment for what he did".........

one is wishing out of emotion (which is no problem) and the other is endorsing the United States of America to break the law while being a nation of laws. We have signed two treaties (geneva convention and convention against torture), and we have to be held to our signature. Im right with Shae in my disgust for this person and dream of the worsts way to hurt the guy in my anger, but best belive if I find out the the police that are holding him beat him to a pulp and stuck a broomstick up his ass, I will speak out against it. Not in defense of the monster, but in defense of our morals.
this is a simple concept he will never understand.

same as pro choice=pro abortion to him, he doesn't get it.

[ShaE]

so the 500 they released were innocent? not at all ..they released the guilty as well and picked them back up on the battlefield .. pows are ot american prisoners .. nor are they afoorded the same rights .. terrorists are not soldiers in centralized army .. why did they choose to hold the other 250?
i didn't say that, i said there are undoubtedly innocents in there. i have a huge problem w/ the fact they were all held in limbo if you keep INSISTING their guilt is obvious, easily provable, etc.

they should've been tried, processed, and punishments exacted expediently. you'd hear no argument from me on that.

[jameznyhc]

yea my ignorance jamez, you can't grasp even the simplest differences in this debate. all this time and you still do not understand WHY i'm against torture by the us gov't, as evidenced by the fact you think I should be against inmates brutalizing other inmates lmao

laughable.

i condone? wish for? no, i just don't lose sleep over guilty men in prison getting what they deserve at the hands of the others incarcerated. if you are found guilty, jail is going to be an unpleasant experience, point blank.

what i find appalling is people subjected to the horrors of prison, w/o having been charged or found guilty, w/o representation, who are being abused not by peers but by THE AUTHORITIES of our gov't who are not merely being secretive, but who claim they have a legal right to torture.

that's disgusting to me, who is doing it, how they're doing it, and who they're doing it to.
some lowlife in jail wants to beat somebody, well, i'm not surprised. the cia tortures prisoners ? i hold the cia A BIT ABOVE your common everyday us JAILBIRD.

maybe you don't.


khalid was as guilty as they come and him being a planner and mastermind could have had valuable info .. cheney wants those memos released .. only 3 men were waterboarded all known terrorist .. guilty as can be .. but you defended them from being waterboarded .. yet you believe american non violent prisoners should not be protected by brutalty such as rape and beatings ... im done .. this is ridiculous

[Defekted]

this is a simple concept he will never understand.

same as pro choice=pro abortion to him, he doesn't get it.

Because rightwingers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Its a sad reality.

[jameznyhc]

i didn't say that, i said there are undoubtedly innocents in there. i have a huge problem w/ the fact they were all held in limbo if you keep INSISTING their guilt is obvious, easily provable, etc.

they should've been tried, processed, and punishments exacted expediently. you'd hear no argument from me on that.

well why isnt Obama doing that whats the hold up? where the solution?.. where they going?

[ShaE]

khalid was as guilty as they come and him being a planner and mastermind could have had valuable info .. cheney wants those memos released .. only 3 men were waterboarded all known terrorist .. guilty as can be .. but you defended them from being waterboarded .. yet you believe american non violent prisoners should not be protected by brutalty such as rape and beatings ... im done .. this is ridiculous
great, he's guilty, let's kill him.

still don't agree w/ torturing him, sorry.

wait, where did i say they should not be protected? I DID NOT SAY THAT. i said guards CANNOT protect all of them all the time.

i didn't say they should make inmate on inmate violence LEGAL. go back and read, i said that quite clearly.

jesus, focus.

[jameznyhc]

Because rightwingers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Its a sad reality.

yeah real sharp to believe pro-choice doesnt apply to every aspect in making and choosing decisions .. lol

wouldnt you be pro-life if you oppose capital punishment?

[jameznyhc]

great, he's guilty, let's kill him.

still don't agree w/ torturing him, sorry.

wait, where did i say they should not be protected? I DID NOT SAY THAT. i said guards CANNOT protect all of them all the time.

i didn't say they should make inmate on inmate violence LEGAL. go back and read, i said that quite clearly.

jesus, focus.

ok lets just electrocute him alive ..instead of pouring water on him and getting the valuable info he provided ..lets see those cheney documents ..whats barry waiting for

[ShaE]

did this post escape you jamez?


If they turn a blind eye, no I don't agree, but it's crazy to think guards can police what goes on in every cell, in every corner, all day every day. not possible, i don't believe prison guards are CAPABLE of preventing all prison violence. fact of life. and no guards are petitioning to make violence, murder, and rape in jails legal are they? no. they are not the offenders. it's still against the law, they still try to stop it, but they are unable to prevent all crimes from happening in such an environment.

[ShaE]

ok lets just electrocute him alive ..instead of pouring water on him and getting the valuable info he provided ..lets see those cheney documents ..whats barry waiting for
the point of waterboarding is not to kill, it's torture, that makes ALL the difference.

course you don't grasp that either lol

[ShaE]

yeah real sharp to believe pro-choice doesnt apply to every aspect in making and choosing decisions .. lol

wouldnt you be pro-life if you oppose capital punishment?

listen, you are a dim bulb if you cannot grasp how somebody can be pro choice but not pro abortion.

the whole term pro abortion is a moronic statement.
nobody on earth WANTS MORE ABORTIONS, nobody LIKES abortions, nobody goes "i'd love to raise the abortion rate nationwide!"

STUPIDITY.

[jameznyhc]

did this post escape you jamez?

no it didnt as i stated thats a false statement ..look at rikers island and tell me why there virtually no violence ANY LONGER since kerik changed the policy .. why? what was his solution? ...

so you dont loose sleep if a drug user is beaten and raped by another inmate cause jail is tough??? i certainly would it would turn my stomach .. im done this is toooo stupid .. check keriks policy theres allways solutions shae ..

[jameznyhc]

listen, you are a dim bulb if you cannot grasp how somebody can be pro choice but not pro abortion.

the whole term pro abortion is a moronic statement.
nobody on earth WANTS MORE ABORTIONS, nobody LIKES abortions, nobody goes "i'd love to raise the abortion rate nationwide!"

STUPIDITY.

i disagree keeps alot of people in business from planned parenthood to clinics etc .. abortion is big bucks as well .. why you think theyre lobbiest poor so much money into expanding it .. some people ven advocate partial brith abprtion .. why? thats fuckin sick

[ShaE]

no it didnt as i stated thats a false statement ..look at rikers island and tell me why there virtually no violence ANY LONGER since kerik changed the policy .. why? what was his solution? ...

so you dont loose sleep if a drug user is beaten and raped by another inmate cause jail is tough??? i certainly would it would turn my stomach .. im done this is toooo stupid .. check keriks policy theres allways solutions shae ..
No, i really don't, it's sad but it's not going to keep me awake at night the way our own gov't sanctioning torture has.

not even remotely on the same level for me.

[ShaE]

abortion does not keep anybody in business jamez, get a hold of yourself

[jameznyhc]

Its one thing to say "I wish (insert rapist, terrorist, murderer, pedophile - HERE) would get pinned up to a stake a raped by a huge NFL offensive linemen, and then right after get fed to the Lions and then keep him alive just enough so that we can light him on fire right after, than spread his ashes in a porta-potty" which we would all say with NO problem cause we hate the offender so much for doing something so terrible, like masterminding a mass murder terrorist attack or throwing a baby out a window on the highway. An entirely other thing to say "I approve that we should torture that person who is under US custody (police, CIA, whatever), as punishment for what he did".........

one is wishing out of emotion (which is no problem) and the other is endorsing the United States of America to break the law while being a nation of laws. We have signed two treaties (geneva convention and convention against torture), and we have to be held to our signature. Im right with Shae in my disgust for this person and dream of the worst way to hurt the guy in my anger, but best belive if I find out the the police that are holding him beat him to a pulp and stuck a broomstick up his ass, I will speak out against it. Not in defense of the monster, but in defense of our morals.

again id take waterboarding everyday of my life over a rape or maiming that would leave me destroyed .. its like your defense of maiming and killing of innocent pakistani women & children right now ..you abhirred it iraq ..but now that barry doing it in pakistan (when did they last try attacking us lol ) your a-ok with it ..

now i would be on your side if we cut off fingers, smahed finger tips with hammers, disembowelment, and other tactics ..i guess i would describe torture as unbearable excruicating pain .. i dont buy waterboarding fits that mold .. and since we only used it on the guilty and the planners i really have no poroblem with it ..but i would take a stand against inhumane torture ..its wahy i depise hitler, sadaam,jihadists, sharia law, milosivic etc so much

[jameznyhc]

abortion does not keep anybody in business jamez, get a hold of yourself

i know you just didnt mean what you said ..LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[jameznyhc]

No, i really don't, it's sad but it's not going to keep me awake at night the way our own gov't sanctioning torture has.

not even remotely on the same level for me.

ok so lets turn a blind eye to a man being raped for selling xtc ..vs waterboarding a proven mastermind terrorist for vital info who you also agreed shopuld be electrocuted alive ... wow .. Looneyyyyyyyy Leftiesssssssssssssssss

[Defekted]

again id take waterboarding everyday of my life over a rape or maiming that would leave me destroyed .. its like your defense of maiming and killing of innocent pakistani women & children right now ..you abhirred it iraq ..but now that barry doing it in pakistan (when did they last try attacking us lol ) your a-ok with it ..

now i would be on your side if we cut off fingers, smahed finger tips with hammers, disembowelment, and other tactics ..i guess i would describe torture as unbearable excruicating pain .. i dont buy waterboarding fits that mold .. and since we only used it on the guilty and the planners i really have no poroblem with it ..but i would take a stand against inhumane torture ..its wahy i depise hitler, sadaam,jihadists, sharia law, milosivic etc so much

waterboarding over rape and torture? Who is condoning either? I am not. I am saying neither is acceptable for OUR GUYS TO BE DOING (i.e. police, CIA, military, etc)..... once a person is in the custody of a US official, he or she is in the hands OF THE LAW not of that person. So the law is final and above everyone including the president. It goes above all emotion, all vengeful impulses, all personal wants..... No matter the criminal in question and no matter the crime. From stealing candy from a store to masterminding the worst terrorist attack in history, our law has a position on both and deals out punishment accordingly........ we not only waterboarded, but we beat, we even killed in custody......and thats wrong, no matter how you slice it. It weakens us at home and abroad.

More pictures and documents have come out to show how widespread the abuse was at Gitmo and elsewhere. Under the Bush administration these tactics became policy rather than the work of bad apples. There needs to be accountability. I hope they nail them on this cause if they dont, it sets the precedent for future administrations to bend the rules as they see fit. I would be very disappointed if no prosecutions come out of this. AND AT THE VERY LEAST there needs to be a bipartisan truth commission to make sure all the dirty deeds are out for historical record..... so we know whats up.... we are a free open democracy and to have all this shit go down under our noses (eventhough I always had a gut feeling it was going down) is bullshit.

[jameznyhc]

come on jamez ur killing me here lol

maybe you didnt hear he sending 20k troops .. his commanders want 30k .. for guerilla war in afghanistan when the terrorists are pushing further into pakistan .. should have left in 2002 after karzai was elected ..so what his goal anyways? ..to protect karzai while they overthrow the pakistani govt? lol ..

[jameznyhc]

waterboarding over rape and torture? Who is condoning either? I am not. I am saying neither is acceptable for OUR GUYS TO BE DOING (i.e. police, CIA, military, etc)..... once a person is in the custody of a US official, he or she is in the hands OF THE LAW not of that person. So the law is final and above everyone including the president. It goes above all emotion, all vengeful impulses, all personal wants..... No matter the criminal in question and no matter the crime. From stealing candy from a store to masterminding the worst terrorist attack in history, our law has a position on both and deals out punishment accordingly........ we not only waterboarded, but we beat, we even killed in custody......and thats wrong, no matter how you slice it. It weakens us at home and abroad.

More pictures and documents have come out to show how widespread the abuse was at Gitmo and elsewhere. Under the Bush administration these tactics became policy rather than the work of bad apples. There needs to be accountability. I hope they nail them on this cause if they dont, it sets the precedent for future administrations to bend the rules as they see fit. I would be very disappointed if no prosecutions come out of this. AND AT THE VERY LEAST there needs to be a bipartisan truth commission to make sure all the dirty deeds are out for historical record..... so we know whats up.... we are a free open democracy and to have all this shit go down under our noses (eventhough I always had a gut feeling it was going down) is bullshit.

who did we kill in custody khalid was having alot of fun at his trial .. i didnt hear him cry about mistreatment .. again waterboarding is not torture accordinng to legal advice sought from bush administration

you will have rogues in every military, police, correction agency ...i highly doubt the lawyers said it was ok to beat the shit out of prisonersand kill them .. blasting metallica, keeping people awake, and caterpillers are not torture ..where the memos? ..the rogues who were caught were prosecuted ..but stop pretending like you care cause nobody saying boo about our girl rotting in iranian prison ..zero media coverage ..all the lefties in here dead silent on the issue .. as they are with the dozens of innocent women and children murderd since barry took office ..lol

Obama not going to pursue it .. he doesnt have the guts ..his rookie move blew up in his face .. id love to see the cheney documents though .. transparency son .. whats he waiting for??

[ShaE]

ok so lets turn a blind eye to a man being raped for selling xtc ..vs waterboarding a proven mastermind terrorist for vital info who you also agreed shopuld be electrocuted alive ... wow .. Looneyyyyyyyy Leftiesssssssssssssssss
where did i say turn a blind eye?

go back, read, i posted it twice.

the only thing around here that's looney is me having to constantly repeat myself, repost things, b/c you don't read it the first or the second times.

[ShaE]

waterboarding over rape and torture? Who is condoning either? I am not. I am saying neither is acceptable for OUR GUYS TO BE DOING (i.e. police, CIA, military, etc)..... once a person is in the custody of a US official, he or she is in the hands OF THE LAW not of that person. So the law is final and above everyone including the president. It goes above all emotion, all vengeful impulses, all personal wants..... No matter the criminal in question and no matter the crime. From stealing candy from a store to masterminding the worst terrorist attack in history, our law has a position on both and deals out punishment accordingly........ we not only waterboarded, but we beat, we even killed in custody......and thats wrong, no matter how you slice it. It weakens us at home and abroad.

More pictures and documents have come out to show how widespread the abuse was at Gitmo and elsewhere. Under the Bush administration these tactics became policy rather than the work of bad apples. There needs to be accountability. I hope they nail them on this cause if they dont, it sets the precedent for future administrations to bend the rules as they see fit. I would be very disappointed if no prosecutions come out of this. AND AT THE VERY LEAST there needs to be a bipartisan truth commission to make sure all the dirty deeds are out for historical record..... so we know whats up.... we are a free open democracy and to have all this shit go down under our noses (eventhough I always had a gut feeling it was going down) is bullshit.
it's a sad day when you have to justify to an american why torture by our own gov't, is wrong.

[ShaE]

again waterboarding is not torture accordinng to legal advice sought from bush administration

you ??
yea, that's reliable.

i'm embarrassed for you.

[metfan85]

yes, i'm against agents of the us gov't torturing people and holding them w/ no trial, charges, or evidence shown to them.

i am not against people who have been tried, found guilty, put in prison, and are abused by FELLOW INMATES, which IMO, cannot be avoided if your ass landed in jail.



collossal differences, all of which seem to have escaped both of you. conveniently.

but one is arbitrary, while the other is at least somewhat defined. Who is to say the child rapist isn't the strongest man in the prison? If he is he can exact his will on the non-violent thief. I'd rather have a court of law say OK, we will hang you, we will leave you in the woods tied to a tree, equal punishment for a crime, rather than sending them to prison where they may or may not have as hard a time as you suspect.

The prisons are policed by the state. That means the state is responsible for the goings on inside, so you'd rather send someone to torture, while turning a blind eye, rather than a jury of your peers finding you guilty and being honest about the punishment delivered?

Did that conveniently escape you?

[ShaE]

but one is arbitrary, while the other is at least somewhat defined. Who is to say the child rapist isn't the strongest man in the prison? If he is he can exact his will on the non-violent thief. I'd rather have a court of law say OK, we will hang you, we will leave you in the woods tied to a tree, equal punishment for a crime, rather than sending them to prison where they may or may not have as hard a time as you suspect.

The prisons are policed by the state. That means the state is responsible for the goings on inside, so you'd rather send someone to torture, while turning a blind eye, rather than a jury of your peers finding you guilty and being honest about the punishment delivered?

Did that conveniently escape you?

No, b/c there's no guarantee of it. I'm not saying inmates SHOULD be abused, or that it should be allowed, but that I know it can't always be avoided. I personally think life behind bars is worse than being put to death regardless of whether you're raped , beaten , or not. That's my view. I never said guards should turn a blind eye, or condone violence in prisons, but to act like there isn't a chance of that happening? is nuts.

I don't ever want to see any court deliver a punishment like that, how on earth would you devise such a thing? There is no equal punishment for some crimes, there is no such thing. you cannot exact on one person EXACTLY the pain and suffering they caused by their crime.

it's not logical to think our courts would operate that way, "ok you raped somebody, somebody's going to rape you", not possible.

i think that's pretty clear

[ShaE]

You have no idea what somebody will face in prison, and I think that's part of the punishment. Maybe they'll be left alone, maybe they won't, maybe they'll struggle, maybe they'll rehabilitate themselves, that's how it is. I have no problem w/ people facing those questions b/c they were formally found guilty and will serve their time. They put themselves in an unsafe position, in a place full of criminals where protection is hard to come by. Their own doing.

I do think laws should be enforced in prison, and prisoners protected, but knowing that isn't always the case really isn't something I find so horrible. If you don't want to be in danger, don't go to prison and you won't have to worry about it. Guards can't always protect you.

I absolutely do not agree w/ men being held who have not been found guilty, being tortured and beaten at the hands of OUR GOV'T claiming they've got legal rights to do such acts. No.

[metfan85]

No, b/c there's no guarantee of it. I'm not saying inmates SHOULD be abused, or that it should be allowed, but that I know it can't always be avoided. I personally think life behind bars is worse than being put to death regardless of whether you're raped , beaten , or not. That's my view. I never said guards should turn a blind eye, or condone violence in prisons, but to act like there isn't a chance of that happening? is nuts.

I don't ever want to see any court deliver a punishment like that, how on earth would you devise such a thing? There is no equal punishment for some crimes, there is no such thing. you cannot exact on one person EXACTLY the pain and suffering they caused by their crime.

it's not logical to think our courts would operate that way, "ok you raped somebody, somebody's going to rape you", not possible.

i think that's pretty clear

So there's no guarantee, but the probability is high enough that whenever someone says to punish them according to the crime, the immediate response is he will suffer more in jail. So why is it OK to torture someone, so much over so many decades, when capital punishment would be relatively quick and painless, in some instances but not in other cases? Clearly it is common knowledge, how harsh jails are with forced homosexual sex, beatings, et cetera, so when one is sentenced by the state to time in prison, they are in effect sentencing someone to a drawn out sentence of torture.

[ShaE]

So there's no guarantee, but the probability is high enough that whenever someone says to punish them according to the crime, the immediate response is he will suffer more in jail. So why is it OK to torture someone so much over so many decades, that death would be relatively quick and painless, in some instances but not in others? Clearly it is common knowledge, how harsh jails are with forced homosexual sex, beatings, et cetera, so when one is sentenced by the state to time in prison, they are in effect sentencing someone to a drawn out sentence of torture.
suffer more yes, even if he's not abused, b/c to me, losing your freedom & living under lock and key for the rest of your life because you have shown you're unfit to be in society lawfully,
will always cause suffering.

depends how you define torture, I don't consider incarceration to be torture. i also don't consider everything that's unpleasant or might cause suffering "torture" either. if somebody commits a crime, the court deems them guilty, they're a danger to society, you remove them from society. they go to jail, what they experience there is variable, they still have rights, but how they are protected is sketchy at best.

torture IMO is unjustified, locking somebody up with other criminals b/c they committed crimes, is justified.

[jameznyhc]

yea, that's reliable.

i'm embarrassed for you.

why its up to your boy Obama and his attorney gewneral to prosecute .. he doesnt have the guts .. or legal grounds to do it

if Bush /Cheney ordered it without legal consent/ advice you would have a point

[jameznyhc]

it's a sad day when you have to justify to an american why torture by our own gov't, is wrong.

not if it saved one life ... just like when the somali pirate was shot in the head .. well worth it to save the captain ..again torture is subjective ..

[jameznyhc]

No, b/c there's no guarantee of it. I'm not saying inmates SHOULD be abused, or that it should be allowed, but that I know it can't always be avoided. I personally think life behind bars is worse than being put to death regardless of whether you're raped , beaten , or not. That's my view. I never said guards should turn a blind eye, or condone violence in prisons, but to act like there isn't a chance of that happening? is nuts.

I don't ever want to see any court deliver a punishment like that, how on earth would you devise such a thing? There is no equal punishment for some crimes, there is no such thing. you cannot exact on one person EXACTLY the pain and suffering they caused by their crime.

it's not logical to think our courts would operate that way, "ok you raped somebody, somebody's going to rape you", not possible.

i think that's pretty clear

no kidding thats why we electrocute and inject which your in favor of .. electrocuting one to death is torture shae lol

[ShaE]

not if it saved one life ... just like when the somali pirate was shot in the head .. well worth it to save the captain ..again torture is subjective ..
nope, i still think it's wrong. even if it saved one life.

shooting a pirate in the head b/c he's holding a man at gunpoint is NOT the same as torturing a prisoner, in an attempt to get information, who may or may not have committed a crime.

[ShaE]

no kidding thats why we electrocute and inject which your in favor of .. electrocuting one to death is torture shae lol
where did i say you should electrocute somebody? hang them, lethal injection, firing squad, whatever.

executions should be quick, if they take place. i'm divided on the death penalty though.

[jameznyhc]

nope, i still think it's wrong. even if it saved one life.

shooting a pirate in the head b/c he's holding a man at gunpoint is NOT the same as torturing a prisoner, in an attempt to get information, who may or may not have committed a crime.

but we didnt ..we waterboarded khalid sheil mohammed who masterminded 9/11 and 2 other planners and terrorists..all guilty as hell ..lol..and the reason barry not relesing the info is it probally saved lives .. lets get it all out ..

[ShaE]

but we didnt we waterboarded khalid sheil mohammed who masterminded 9/11 and 2 other planners and terrorists ..lol
we tortured a lot more people than 3 jamez, get your head out of your ass, and the ends does not justify the means.

the us should not torture, should not make it legal, should not engage in it, and you will never change my mind.

[jameznyhc]

where did i say you should electrocute somebody? hang them, lethal injection, firing squad, whatever.

executions should be quick, if they take place. i'm divided on the death penalty though.

but they arent when it comes to the chair which is what we employ .. in most states .. texas you still got shot ..

[jameznyhc]

we tortured a lot more people than 3 jamez, get your head out of your ass, and the ends does not justify the means.

the us should not torture, should not make it legal, should not engage in it, and you will never change my mind.

no we didnt waterboard more than 3 .. only those 3 were ordered .. god do you even know what your talking about half the time lol .. it was 3 men

[jameznyhc]

we tortured a lot more people than 3 jamez, get your head out of your ass, and the ends does not justify the means.

the us should not torture, should not make it legal, should not engage in it, and you will never change my mind.

we already do .. its called capital punishment by electric chair lol ..and thats our own citizens

[ShaE]

no we didnt waterboard more than 3 .. Only those 3 were ordered .. God do you even know what your talking about half the time lol .. It was 3 men
pleeeeeeeeeeease lol

[ShaE]

from the guy that says waterboarding isn't torture, we only did it to 3 people, and the electric chair IS lol

i've got a bridge to sell you jamez lol

[jameznyhc]

pleeeeeeeeeeease lol

its the truth ..3 people .. guilty terrorists .. not only terrorists but mastermind planners with the most info out there ..

[jameznyhc]

from the guy that says waterboarding isn't torture, we only did it to 3 people, and the electric chair IS lol

i've got a bridge to sell you jamez lol

provide the other prisoners who were waterboarded? ..you cant!!!.

[ShaE]

provide the other prisoners who were waterboarded? ..you cant!!!.
prove to me only 3 were- YOU CAN'T lol

[jameznyhc]

prove to me only 3 were- YOU CAN'T lol

sure i can .. there was documentation, legal advise, memos, doctors present, lawyers involved, ...besides it wouldnt make sense to waterboard and waste resources on foot soldiers who no info or little to share .. thhe other 17 attempted attacks were stopped cause of good intelligence all documented as well

[ShaE]

mmmhmmmmm, you get mighty naive and trusting when it suits your purpose :) lol

[jameznyhc]

from the guy that says waterboarding isn't torture, we only did it to 3 people, and the electric chair IS lol

i've got a bridge to sell you jamez lol

well the brooklyn bridge is still in place thanks to Bush/ Cheney policy ... lets hope barry is as vigilant

[jameznyhc]

mmmhmmmmm, you get mighty naive and trusting when it suits your purpose :) lol

so you think were still torturing under Obama ?

[ShaE]

there you go again lol

yea two towers down, bklyn bridge still up, thanks george.

[jameznyhc]

there you go again lol

yea two towers down, bklyn bridge still up, thanks george.

better than 2 towers down and brooklyn bridge ..notice you avoided the Obama question also .. back to Bush you hated him for patriot act and domestic spy program .. why do you think Obama lied and chose to keep both programs going strong?

[ShaE]

i didn't avoid the question, i didn't see it until now, relax yourself, the paranoia is taking over.

no, i don't think we're still waterboarding or torturing prisoners at gitmo, no i do not.

i think it's clear there's no value in it, the cover is blown off it, the public scrutiny is high, it'd be close to impossible to do so and keep it quiet, and i do not believe anybody in this administration believes it produces quality information.

i don't see the motive for it now, i don't see the capability for it publicly, it'd be suicide.

[jameznyhc]

mmmhmmmmm, you get mighty naive and trusting when it suits your purpose :) lol

i dont like Obama im not going to rail against him for killing innocents in pakistan , i understand there is collatrial damage ..why would he want to kill innocents if he wants to stop the real terrorists .. see shae you gotta learn how to be objective and not slander your commander in chief ..

I wish more people would question this surge before it begins .. cause i said once it begins i have to get behind Obamas decision and support my president and troops during war time ...now is the time to raise hell and protest so i been wondering where the lefties are? .. i see the paleocons being completly consistant .. to protest afterwards would only damge the morale of our troops,and our countrys reputation ..nor will i slander Obama when he makes a mistake and kills innocents ..thats just war .. im consistant .. you on the other hand hoped al qaeda murderd Cheney .. Mrs. non torture .. let me ask you when you hoped for cheneys death did you want a quick death? will you be consistant? ..

[jameznyhc]

i didn't avoid the question, i didn't see it until now, relax yourself, the paranoia is taking over.

no, i don't think we're still waterboarding or torturing prisoners at gitmo, no i do not.

i think it's clear there's no value in it, the cover is blown off it, the public scrutiny is high, it'd be close to impossible to do so and keep it quiet, and i do not believe anybody in this administration believes it produces quality information.

i don't see the motive for it now, i don't see the capability for it publicly, it'd be suicide.

same can be said about Bush administration which is why they only orderd it on the top 3 masterminds ...

why not now? iarent we ramping up for a surge in afghhanistan against al qaeda who is in pakistan lol?

[jameznyhc]

well what do you know shae ..Barry reversed his decision as holder said today the gitmo terrorists arent going anywhere .. man you must be outraged!!!

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration will not release Guantanamo detainees thought to be terrorists into the United States, Attorney General Eric Holder told Congress Thursday as he sought to reassure worried lawmakers.

"We don't have any plans to release terrorists," Holder testified at a Senate hearing on the administration's budget for the Justice Department.

But he also said some of the detainees at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, facility will be let go as the administration believes some held there are not terrorists.

..just like george bush huh .. where the liberal outrage ???????????

Holder faced repeated questions about his plans for closing Guantanamo. President Barack Obama has ordered the center shuttered by January 2010.

Republicans critical of Obama's plan claim Guantanamo detainees cannot legally be brought to the United States because federal law bars entry to anyone who has received terrorist training.

Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., pressed Holder to say whether he believed he had the authority to release someone with terrorist training into the United States. The attorney general did not directly answer Shelby's question, but said the government doesn't have any plans to release terrorists.

"With regard to those who you would describe as terrorists, we would not bring them into this country and release them, anyone we would consider to be a terrorist," Holder said.

He added the government has no plans to release anyone considered a terrorist in a foreign country, either.

Last week in Europe, Holder said about 30 Guantanamo detainees have been approved for release. He has been asking European countries to take some, but that may be difficult if the United States doesn't also take some.

Republicans in Congress are fighting any such move, saying the presence of detainees would endanger communities that receive them.

The Democrat chairing the subcommittee hearing, Sen. Barbara Mikulski of Maryland, also voiced misgivings, saying local and state elected officials should be told if they are going to receive detainees.

Mikulski said she and other lawmakers "would be very concerned" about not being consulted on what the plans are for detainees brought to the U.S.

Holder assured her they would be consulted, but added that "determinations have not been made yet" about where to send any of the remaining Guantanamo detainees.

There are currently 241 people held at the detention center at the U.S. military base in Cuba. Holder said some will be released, some will be put on trial, and some "are going to be detained on a fairly extended basis."
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