FBI & NYPD bust terror cell ready to hit new york

[jameznyhc]

FBI, NYPD Arrest 4 in Alleged Plot to Bomb NY Synagogues One suspect was allegedly upset over the war in Afghanistan

By JONATHAN DIENST



FBI officials and the NYPD arrested four men in connection with plots to bomb Jewish temples.


Four New York City men were arrested Wednesday in connection with an alleged plot to blow up New York City synagogues and other city locations, WNBC's Jonathan Dienst was first to learn.

Raids by the FBI-NYPD Joint Terrorist Task Force in the Bronx captured the suspected ringleader and three followers in what law enforcement sources are calling a homegrown terrorist plot.

4 Arrested in Plot to Bomb NYC Temples
Watch Video

A WNBC video exclusive: The FBI and NYPD arrested four men Wednesday evening in an alleged plot to detonate bombs outside New York City Jewish temples...


Investigators stress the suspects' meetings had been infiltrated early on and there was "no chance" the alleged plot could succeed. Some officials have called them an "unsophisticated" group.

Investigators said several of the suspects are Muslims who allegedly talked about destroying two Jewish temples, including at least one in the Riverdale section of the Bronx.

Prosecutors also said the men discussed trying to shoot down military planes at Stewart Airport using stinger missiles.

The four suspects were identified as James Cromitie, David Williams, Onta Williams and Laguerre Payen.

Read the full complaint

The men ordered and accepted delivery of materials they believed were bomb-making ingredients, authorities said. But investigators said they made sure the materials the suspects received were inert. Officials tell WNBC they moved in now so the alleged plot could not progress any further.

The four men are in custody and are expected to be arraigned Thursday in White Plains federal court on terrorism-related counts.

“I have spoken to both the New York office of the FBI and Commissioner Kelly and I want to commend them both on an outstanding job. They have told me they have been monitoring this group for sometime and that the men arrested did not have any connection to other terrorists," Sen. Charles Schumer said.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg also offered his thanks to the NYPD and FBI.

"This latest attempt to attack our freedoms shows that the homeland security threats against New York City are sadly all too real and underscores why we must remain vigilant in our efforts to prevent terrorism," Bloomberg said.

The motives behind the alleged plot are not yet known, but authorities said that Cromitie said his parents live in Afghanistan and he was apparently upset over the U.S. military presence there and in Pakistan.


Since the 9/11 attacks, authorities have arrested suspects in a number of alleged plots against area targets including the Fort Dix New Jersey military base, John F. Kennedy Airport, the Herald Square subway station in Manhattan and the Brooklyn Bridge.

Last December, a New Jersey jury convicted five foreign-born men, living and working in the area for years, of conspiring to kill U.S. soldiers at Ft. Dix. Three were brothers from Yugoslavia; the others were born in Jordan and Turkey. The FBI arrested them after 15 months of surveillance after they tried to buy AK-47s and M-16s. The men had claimed they were set up by an unscrupulous informant.

In June 2007, four alleged Muslim extremists -- a 63-year-old former JFK airport cargo employee living in Brooklyn and three others from Guyana and Trinidad and Tobago -- were charged with plotting to blow up fuel lines and gas tanks at the busy Queens airport. All four have pleaded not guilty.

Two men were convicted of plotting to bomb the Herald Square station including a Pakistani immigrant Shahawar Matin Siraj. He is serving 30 years in federal prison for conspiring to blow up the subway station on the eve of the 2004 Republican National Convention in nearby Madison Square Garden.

Al Qaeda operative Iman Faris of Columbus, Ohio, a naturalized U.S. citizen from Kashmir, is serving 20 years in federal prison for planning to destroy American targets including the Brooklyn Bridge, which he cased in 2002 and 2003.

Others have been charged with material support for terrorism. Two American born Muslim converts, Bronx jazz musician and martial arts expert Tarik Shah and emergency room doctor Rafiq Sabir, who had worked in New York and Florida, were convicted in 2007 of conspiring to provide material support to Al Qaeda.

Queens resident Mohammed Junaid Babar, who immigrated to the U.S., pleaded guilty in 2004 to supporting Al Qaeda and has since testified against terror suspects who plotted attacks in London.

[eL FryEdo]

:applaud

[TrippinFace101]

Na maybe they were just tourists and they are bein profiled.

[joeylima]

Na maybe they were just tourists and they are bein profiled.

lol...unfortuntely, some here would spin it that way...and fight you to the end on it...

[Defekted]

Another perfect example how good law enforcement is the key in this fight against extremists. You do great police work on one hand, you take away the propaganda tools like gitmo, torture, and preemptive war on the other. You also help fund education and infrastructure development and pressure democracy on both our adversaries (iran) and allies (i.e. egypt, SA, jordan)....... its a juggling act but when done right with an equal effort for each, you critically wound the enemy.

This is phenominal work by the feds and nypd

[Defekted]

And if you read the article you can see plain as day the examples of how our legal system and prison system is MORE than capable of handling terrorists.

[jameznyhc]

Another perfect example how good law enforcement is the key in this fight against extremists. You do great police work on one hand, you take away the propaganda tools like gitmo, torture, and preemptive war on the other. You also help fund education and infrastructure development and pressure democracy on both our adversaries (iran) and allies (i.e. egypt, SA, jordan)....... its a juggling act but when done right with an equal effort for each, you critically wound the enemy.

This is phenominal work by the feds and nypd

homegrown muslims, more proof it not american policy that drives terror ..anyhow good thing 5-0 infiltrated but they probally used spying and eavesdropping when infiltarting that you would claim is "profiling" and violating righjts.. anyways this is nothing new been going on sionce we prevented the other 18 planned attacks we broke up and aressted

[metfan85]

And if you read the article you can see plain as day the examples of how our legal system and prison system is MORE than capable of handling terrorists.

agreed. but there are definitely some questions to be asked about this...

Questions about the "Temple Plot" (http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/026884.html)
Posted by Bill Anderson at May 21, 2009 06:19 AM

The FBI and and media are going ape over this alleged "Temple bombing" plot in which four men from Newburgh (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/nyregion/21arrests.html?_r=1&hp), New York, planted what they thought were bombs outside a Jewish temple. Also, these "domestic terrorists" were planning to obtain Stinger missiles (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090521/ap_on_re_us/us_temple_plot) to shoot down U.S. military planes.

Interestingly, we see that the entire "plot" was hatched by an FBI informant:


The defendants, in their efforts to acquire weapons, dealt with an informant acting under law enforcement supervision, authorities said. The FBI and other agencies monitored the men and provided an inactive missile and inert C-4 to the informant for the defendants, a federal complaint said.

In June 2008, the informant met Cromitie in Newburgh and Cromitie complained that his parents had lived in Afghanistan and he was upset about the war there and that many Muslim people were being killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan by U.S. military forces, officials said.

Folks, let's take a hard look at this one, please. It is not as though C-4 explosives and Stinger missiles are available at every neighborhood drug store. Had any of the four "terrorists" ever obtained explosives or anything similar on their own? Somehow, I seriously doubt it. The New York Times pretty much gives it away, although unintentionally:


A federal law enforcement official described the plot as “aspirational” — meaning that the suspects wanted to do something but had no weapons or explosives — and described the operation as a sting with a cooperator within the group.

“It was fully controlled at all times,” a law enforcement official said. (emphasis mine)

Indeed, this Freudian slip perhaps is the most truthful line in the entire article.

[metfan85]

James, did you totally miss the part where one of the members of this cell, had said he wanted revenge for family killed in Afghanistan.

Great job stopping, I mean making, terrorism through bombs. :applaud

[jameznyhc]

James, did you totally miss the part where one of the members of this cell, had said he wanted revenge for family killed in Afghanistan.

Great job stopping, I mean making, terrorism through bombs. :applaud

yes i did ..but he's an american .. that would be like me bombing america for siding with britain during the ira days are you kidding me..As for afghanistan i been saying for as lonfg as i can remeber it' done .. the new surge is a karzai protection .. and while the libs cry about khalid being waterboarded innocent pakistani women and children gettin killed with the manless drones.. maybe we should ask israel to help us shott straighter ... there assination teams have actual men in the planes maybe we would lower the civilian death tioll? .. again its collatiral damage unfortunatly its got to be done .. but this new surge certainly doesnt

[Defekted]

homegrown muslims, more proof it not american policy that drives terror ..anyhow good thing 5-0 infiltrated but they probally used spying and eavesdropping when infiltarting that you would claim is "profiling" and violating righjts.. anyways this is nothing new been going on sionce we prevented the other 18 planned attacks we broke up and aressted

There are homegrown terrorists (like fort dix, buffalo, LaGuarda guys last year, and these four) and you have off the boat immigrants..... you also got people who get turned in prison..... you get all different types....

what matters is our NYPD and FBI is on top of things, doing good legal police work..... thats what matters. No one was waterboarded or beaten to get these guys.

To fight this battle you need GREAT law enforcement to take down the ones that are already brainwashed and you need to take away THE RECRUITMENT for new foot soldiers of hate...... its the two key sides to this fight...... we are in the process of working (not fast enough in my opinion but at least in the right direction) on both..... we are going in the right direction.

[jameznyhc]

James, did you totally miss the part where one of the members of this cell, had said he wanted revenge for family killed in Afghanistan.

Great job stopping, I mean making, terrorism through bombs. :applaud

dual loyalist is this what you would call him ?? if he was perhaps another religion

[metfan85]

yes i did ..but he's an american .. that would be like me bombing america for siding with britain during the ira days are you kidding me..As for afghanistan i been saying for as lonfg as i can remeber it' done .. the new surge is a karzai protection .. and while the libs cry about khalid being waterboarded innocent pakistani women and children gettin killed with the manless drones.. maybe we should ask israel to help us shott straighter ... there assination teams have actual men in the planes maybe we would lower the civilian death tioll? .. again its collatiral damage unfortunatly its got to be done .. but this new surge certainly doesnt

:lol If we ask Israel to help us shoot straighter we might bomb Sydney, Australia instead of Afghanistan.

again he could be an American, he's not by the way, but that point is completely irrelevant. We killed his family and so he hates us. Wouldn't you?

This is clearly another failure of mass immigration and reckless wars.

[jameznyhc]

There are homegrown terrorists (like fort dix, buffalo, LaGuarda guys last year, and these four) and you have off the boat immigrants..... you also got people who get turned in prison..... you get all different types....

what matters is our NYPD and FBI is on top of things, doing good legal police work..... thats what matters. No one was waterboarded or beaten to get these guys.

To fight this battle you need GREAT law enforcement to take down the ones that are already brainwashed and you need to take away THE RECRUITMENT for new foot soldiers of hate...... its the two key sides to this fight...... we are in the process of working (not fast enough in my opinion but at least in the right direction) on both..... we are going in the right direction.

yeah im just wondering whats the deal with all these terrorists coming from within in our own country ... im sure you need bush policy to let the police do their work only this time your not crying about profiling cause barry kept ALL BUSH DOMESTIC anti terror policy ... lol i think he killed more pakistanis than bush .. so what happened to your wack a mole in afghanistan / pakistan ??

[jameznyhc]

:lol If we ask Israel to help us shoot straighter we might bomb Sydney, Australia instead of Afghanistan.

again he could be an American, he's not by the way, but that point is completely irrelevant. We killed his family and so he hates us. Wouldn't you?

This is clearly another failure of mass immigration and reckless wars.

really israel never needed help .. we allways have assistance they dont .. and when they do hunt hamas they dont rack up the civilians the way opur manless drones are ..there no denying that .. look at the precision of their gaza conflict all those people well over a million and not even a 1000 dead

according to you we killed 600,000 iraqis during shock and awe ..

[metfan85]

There are homegrown terrorists (like fort dix, buffalo, LaGuarda guys last year, and these four) and you have off the boat immigrants..... you also got people who get turned in prison..... you get all different types....

what matters is our NYPD and FBI is on top of things, doing good legal police work..... thats what matters. No one was waterboarded or beaten to get these guys.

To fight this battle you need GREAT law enforcement to take down the ones that are already brainwashed and you need to take away THE RECRUITMENT for new foot soldiers of hate...... its the two key sides to this fight...... we are in the process of working (not fast enough in my opinion but at least in the right direction) on both..... we are going in the right direction.

yeahh uhh none of those so-called homegrown terorists, were "home grown."

fort dix terrorists were albanian (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10089947) The Buffalo 6 might have been born here, but sure as hell weren't Americans, they were from Yemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Six) living in an isolated muslim community in Buffalo, the JFK plot terrorists were Caribbean muslims (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19051482/)

great work multi culturalism :lol

[Defekted]

yeah im just wondering whats the deal with all these terrorists coming from within in our own country ... im sure you need bush policy to let the police do their work only this time your not crying about profiling cause barry kept ALL BUSH DOMESTIC anti terror policy ... lol i think he killed more pakistanis than bush .. so what happened to your wack a mole in afghanistan / pakistan ??

The nypd got their driver to flip and set his boys up...... thats called good old fashioned police work. Still the best tool to fight enemies within. The NYPD and FBI needs more muslim americans, arab americans to work with them, they need to up their recruiting, they need to do more outreach in their communities, in the mosques..... to make sure that young males know where their loyaties should be with..... and i have NO PROBLEM with wiretapping and spying.... as long as they get the warrants from the courts to do so.... I am against warrantless wiretapping cause, again, that is an overreach by our government, and its unneeded..... all things can be done within the parameters of our laws.... we are a great country because we have great system in place, no need to bend or break it.


As for afganistan/pakistan, I have been consistant since day 1, we are going to put the pressure on the people who attacked us, not people who we think will attack us later, people who we are afraid of, or people who simply disagree with our lifestyle or values...... no, all those reasons are DUMB MEATHEAD reasons for violence..... but a direct correlation between attacking those who attacked us is JUST and is defended by the vast majority of people around the world... its a concept that everyone short of monks back. You are the flipflopper that all of a sudden doesnt care about justice for the 3k families that lost someone to the vicious attacks on our homeland.....all of a sudden you dont care about OBL and his cronies, the people that are hiding and aiding him..... etc..... all of a sudden you are a "tea bagger" who wants to stay home and build walls..... well enjoy your hypocrasy..... keep being TERRIBLY on the wrong side of history lurking in the depths - backing wars of choice and torture and I will stay on the moral mountain top.

[Defekted]

yeahh uhh none of those so-called homegrown terorists, were "home grown."

fort dix terrorists were albanian (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10089947) The Buffalo 6 might have been born here, but sure as hell weren't Americans, they were from Yemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Six) living in an isolated muslim community in Buffalo, the JFK plot terrorists were Caribbean muslims (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19051482/)

great work multi culturalism :lol

and i am "lebanese" you are "yugosalvian" and jamez is "irish" ..... whats your point? Its not whats in their DNA, its how and why they got brainwashed to be so stupid and hateful...... for every yemeni or caribbean decendant that plots against this country i can show you 1 million that contribute positively to this country. I dont think you want to go up against those numbers.

[Defekted]

really israel never needed help .. we allways have assistance they dont .. and when they do hunt hamas they dont rack up the civilians the way opur manless drones are ..there no denying that .. look at the precision of their gaza conflict all those people well over a million and not even a 1000 dead

according to you we killed 600,000 iraqis during shock and awe ..

600k + in 6 years of war, not just in shock and awe.

[metfan85]

The nypd got their driver to flip and set his boys up...... thats called good old fashioned police work. Still the best tool to fight enemies within. The NYPD and FBI needs more muslim americans, arab americans to work with them, they need to up their recruiting, they need to do more outreach in their communities, in the mosques..... to make sure that young males know where their loyaties should be with..... and i have NO PROBLEM with wiretapping and spying.... as long as they get the warrants from the courts to do so.... I am against warrantless wiretapping cause, again, that is an overreach by our government, and its unneeded..... all things can be done within the parameters of our laws.... we are a great country because we have great system in place, no need to bend or break it.


As for afganistan/pakistan, I have been consistant since day 1, we are going to put the pressure on the people who attacked us, not people who we think will attack us later, people who we are afraid of, or people who simply disagree with our lifestyle or values...... no, all those reasons are DUMB MEATHEAD reasons for violence..... but a direct correlation between attacking those who attacked us is JUST and is defended by the vast majority of people around the world... its a concept that everyone short of monks back. You are the flipflopper that all of a sudden doesnt care about justice for the 3k families that lost someone to the vicious attacks on our homeland.....all of a sudden you dont care about OBL and his cronies, the people that are hiding and aiding him..... etc..... all of a sudden you are a "tea bagger" who wants to stay home and build walls..... well enjoy your hypocrasy..... keep being TERRIBLY on the wrong side of history lurking in the depths - backing wars of choice and torture and I will stay on the moral mountain top.

do you mean the moral mountain top that let these people here in the first place? or the moral mountain top of killing the family of the people we let into the country?

And you are more compassionate and multi-cultural than I am? spare me. I want all people to enjoy their lives in peace, my people first of course but not at the expense of others, and you think it's ok to send predator drones into tribes that did not harm us and kill families because that's collateral damage.


Sure you're sorry, but rhat reminds me of an accident at a pickup hockey game last night. The defenseman sent a forward flying into the boards, by accident and he apologized. of course if his head hit 2 inches higher up the boards the kids vertebrae would have been turned to dust, but he was sorry, so it obviously would have made it alright.

[metfan85]

and i am "lebanese" you are "yugosalvian" and jamez is "irish" ..... whats your point? Its not whats in their DNA, its how and why they got brainwashed to be so stupid and hateful...... for every yemeni or caribbean decendant that plots against this country i can show you 1 million that contribute positively to this country. I dont think you want to go up against those numbers.

And no one would know I haven't been here for centuries, because I was raised in an area where there weren't very many immigrants. When james family got here there weren't very many immigrants and sure they stayed in similar areas when they were new here but had to move away, not like today's immigrants which overtake whole sections of the city and one practically needs a passport to enter.

And you want to make this country into a post-Christian totalitarian leftist state, don't see how that's very American and reflective of the founding values of this country.

[Defekted]

do you mean the moral mountain top that let these people here in the first place? or the moral mountain top of killing the family of the people we let into the country?

And you are more compassionate and multi-cultural than I am? spare me. I want all people to enjoy their lives in peace, my people first of course but not at the expense of others, and you think it's ok to send predator drones into tribes that did not harm us and kill families because that's collateral damage.


Sure you're sorry, but rhat reminds me of an accident at a pickup hockey game last night. The defenseman sent a forward flying into the boards, by accident and he apologized. of course if his head hit 2 inches higher up the boards the kids vertebrae would have been turned to dust, but he was sorry, so it obviously would have made it alright.

And what exactly do you suggest we do about OBL and the AQ leadership that are in that region?

and yes the moral mountain top that let these people in here in the first place, because their parents are probably law abiding citizens..... and somehow they got corrupted here (either by the news, the mosques, the prison system, just mad unemployed lost youths, who knows)..... so you have to be on top of the people that are about to flip to the dark side like we were in all these homegrown cases..... you DONT just not let people in from a particular region or whatever.... cause guess what, if you did i wouldnt be here or you would be here.....

[jameznyhc]

and i am "lebanese" you are "yugosalvian" and jamez is "irish" ..... whats your point? Its not whats in their DNA, its how and why they got brainwashed to be so stupid and hateful...... for every yemeni or caribbean decendant that plots against this country i can show you 1 million that contribute positively to this country. I dont think you want to go up against those numbers.

bingo ... here in America there really no excuse ..its not like palestine where they are indoctrinated from 3 yrs old ..

As for alex statement there a problem with the radical muslim element adjusting to western society ..thats why they want sharia law in britain .. his point is if you come here leave the crazy jihadist shit at home .. for those born here is proof that american policy has nothing to do with hate and prejudice ..that is universal

[metfan85]

And what exactly do you suggest we do about OBL and the AQ leadership that are in that region?

and yes the moral mountain top that let these people in here in the first place, because their parents are probably law abiding citizens..... and somehow they got corrupted here (either by the news, the mosques, the prison system, just mad unemployed lost youths, who knows)..... so you have to be on top of the people that are about to flip to the dark side like we were in all these homegrown cases..... you DONT just not let people in from a particular region or whatever.... cause guess what, if you did i wouldnt be here or you would be here.....

get the heck out of there and stop letting in tons of people from every corner of the world that has been nothing but caves for millenia. And get out of everywhere else, especially the Muslim holy lands. UBL has only said his stated goal for decades was to get the infidel out of that region. Being in that region does nothing but harm us. Being 100% with Israel no matter what does nothing to harm us. So why the hell are we there? We patrol the border of Pakistan and Iraq but not America?

[jameznyhc]

get the heck out of there and stop letting in tons of people from every corner of the world that has been nothing but caves for millenia. And get out of everywhere else, especially the Muslim holy lands. UBL has only said his stated goal for decades was to get the infidel out of that region. Being in that region does nothing but harm us. Being 100% with Israel no matter what does nothing to harm us. So why the hell are we there? We patrol the border of Pakistan and Iraq but not America?

so why did he give up and his last 10 statements were all regarding israel/palestine? ...makes no sense why they would hit all the other neutral countries either especially when spain appeased them

[Defekted]

And no one would know I haven't been here for centuries, because I was raised in an area where there weren't very many immigrants. When james family got here there weren't very many immigrants and sure they stayed in similar areas when they were new here but had to move away, not like today's immigrants which overtake whole sections of the city and one practically needs a passport to enter.

And you want to make this country into a post-Christian totalitarian leftist state, don't see how that's very American and reflective of the founding values of this country.

And shutting down immigrations isnt very reflective of our founding values of this country either, lol....again, you wouldnt even have HAD THE OPTION to be a card carrying federalist, reciting Ron Paul's teachings like a good boy every night if your parents WERE NOT ALLOWED IN. Correct? You would be playing soccer in a remote town outside Sarajevo (not to say thats a bad life), but just to point out that its BECAUSE your parents had the chance to come here you are where you are, lol.... appreciate immigration and mutliculturism.... you ARE A PRODUCT OF IT!

[jameznyhc]

And what exactly do you suggest we do about OBL and the AQ leadership that are in that region?

and yes the moral mountain top that let these people in here in the first place, because their parents are probably law abiding citizens..... and somehow they got corrupted here (either by the news, the mosques, the prison system, just mad unemployed lost youths, who knows)..... so you have to be on top of the people that are about to flip to the dark side like we were in all these homegrown cases..... you DONT just not let people in from a particular region or whatever.... cause guess what, if you did i wouldnt be here or you would be here.....

and britain wouldnt be having all the trouble there having today

[Defekted]

get the heck out of there and stop letting in tons of people from every corner of the world that has been nothing but caves for millenia. And get out of everywhere else, especially the Muslim holy lands. UBL has only said his stated goal for decades was to get the infidel out of that region. Being in that region does nothing but harm us. Being 100% with Israel no matter what does nothing to harm us. So why the hell are we there? We patrol the border of Pakistan and Iraq but not America?

agree with you on some point and not on others.... i agree we need to be be even handed in the mideast, i agree wars are 100% always bad, and I would rather not fight them than fight them. But just because OBL says his goal is to get us out, and however legitimate that reason is (and in many ways, our presence there is unhelpful) it STILL does not solve the issue of bringing JUSTICE to the people who did 9.11. That was a crime against humanity, not just the US. We need to hold those people accountable.

[Defekted]

and britain wouldnt be having all the trouble there having today

Britain needs to do a better job of community outreach. To assimilate the two camps. America for the most part has been STELLAR in making each community (jew, muslim, black, whatever) live the American life. Of course its not perfect but slowly we are getting there. Europe has a worse track record.

[jameznyhc]

agree with you on some point and not on others.... i agree we need to be be even handed in the mideast, i agree wars are 100% always bad, and I would rather not fight them than fight them. But just because OBL says his goal is to get us out, and however legitimate that reason is (and in many ways, our presence there is unhelpful) it STILL does not solve the issue of bringing JUSTICE to the people who did 9.11. That was a crime against humanity, not just the US. We need to hold those people accountable.

just like when israel goes after hamas and hezbollah... the people who masterminded this you cried about him being waterboarded .. yet you wanna go and kill his boys in war where tons of innocent poakistanis are killed ?? how the fuck does that make any sense?..what moral geround are you standing on? ..glad you credited bush policy opf tearing the wall down between departments to make arrests like this

[jameznyhc]

Britain needs to do a better job of community outreach. To assimilate the two camps. America for the most part has been STELLAR in making each community (jew, muslim, black, whatever) live the American life. Of course its not perfect but slowly we are getting there. Europe has a worse track record.

community outreach? they banned savage and let jihadists preach terror in the streets..give them welfare, let them open mosques, worship as theyu pleaSE ..britain needs to shut their fuckin borders .. there no way in hell any westerners would be afforded these rights in muslim countries are you kidding me

[Defekted]

just like when israel goes after hamas and hezbollah... the people who masterminded this you cried about him being waterboarded .. yet you wanna go and kill his boys in war where tons of innocent poakistanis are killed ?? how the fuck does that make any sense?..what moral geround are you standing on? ..glad you credited bush policy opf tearing the wall down between departments to make arrests like this

What dont you understand about the difference between what we do with people under our complete control and what happens in war? These are on two completely different ballparks.

Acts in war that cause civilian death should be held to the highest standard and the army in power should take GREAT PAINS to avoid it at all costs..... but when it happens its a tragedy but its what happens in war.....

with torture, we are actually subjecting a person chained up and that poses no threat to anyone to physical and mental pain. We are breaking all international treaties we have signed and our own laws here in the states.......... thats a whole new ball game and its shameful

Of course tearing down the walls between agencies are important, and is a no brainer.....the feds, cia, local police and military should ALWAYS be in lock step with each other and share all the intelligence that can in order to keep us safe. This is a no brainer.

And as for Israel, it is their occupation and oppression of the palestinian and lebanese people that led to the reason there even is a hamas and hezbullah. Their continued assainations, their continued offensives that leaves the death toll between civilains and militants at 10:1, their continued confiscation of land with illegal settlements, their continued starvation of gaza..... all contribute to an ongoing battle with extremists....... america hasnt come close to that and if it did i would be bashing america the same way i bash israeli policies.... we dont occupy (at least we didnt until iraq happened, hence, why i think bush is a fucking dumb chimp)..... we dont torture (at least we didnt until bush/cheny happened, hence why i call them criminals) and we dont impose collective punishment to an entire people for the actions of a few (hence we gave a billion to gaza, and we are about to give billions to afgan/pakistan for schools and heatlthcare)....... see a difference little boy?

[ShaE]

good job by law enforcement & the feds, police work makes me feel safer, not wars overseas. plain & simple.

[Defekted]

community outreach? they banned savage and let jihadists preach terror in the streets..give them welfare, let them open mosques, worship as theyu pleaSE ..britain needs to shut their fuckin borders .. there no way in hell any westerners would be afforded these rights in muslim countries are you kidding me

Have you been to london? no you havent, you havent left the tristate area, in your life...... I can tell you having been there at least 6 times that the communities are very segregated. That there is little to no interaction between the two camps, and in turn that has created two socities.... this has nothing to do with savage or welfare.... its goes waaaaaaay above that. Its about community outreach programs to help engage people of all different stripes to work towards improving their community..... America has been impressive in doing this with all their communities..... the NYPD for example works with the leaders in the muslim community in the outer boroughs to ensure that everyone knows who are the good guys and who are the bad guys..... thats a great step. All it takes is flipping one young misguided kid to become a suicide bomber..... how much easier is it for a person to manipulate that kid if there isnt another force (of good) form the other side balancing the arguement this kid is hearing????? Its not a solution just to let them have whatever they want just as long as they stay on "the other side of the tracks" and make sure they dont walk in Kingsington Gardens or Picadily circus..... thats how you foster extremism.... by nonengagement.

[jameznyhc]

What dont you understand about the difference between what we do with people under our complete control and what happens in war? These are on two completely different ballparks.

Acts in war that cause civilian death should be held to the highest standard and the army in power should take GREAT PAINS to avoid it at all costs..... but when it happens its a tragedy but its what happens in war.....

with torture, we are actually subjecting a person chained up and that poses no threat to anyone to physical and mental pain. We are breaking all international treaties we have signed and our own laws here in the states.......... thats a whole new ball game and its shameful

Of course tearing down the walls between agencies are important, and is a no brainer.....the feds, cia, local police and military should ALWAYS be in lock step with each other and share all the intelligence that can in order to keep us safe. This is a no brainer.

And as for Israel, it is their occupation and oppression of the palestinian and lebanese people that led to the reason there even is a hamas and hezbullah. Their continued assainations, their continued offensives that leaves the death toll between civilains and militants at 10:1, their continued confiscation of land with illegal settlements, their continued starvation of gaza..... all contribute to an ongoing battle with extremists....... america hasnt come close to that and if it did i would be bashing america the same way i bash israeli policies.... we dont occupy (at least we didnt until iraq happened, hence, why i think bush is a fucking dumb chimp)..... we dont torture (at least we didnt until bush/cheny happened, hence why i call them criminals) and we dont impose collective punishment to an entire people for the actions of a few (hence we gave a billion to gaza, and we are about to give billions to afgan/pakistan for schools and heatlthcare)....... see a difference little boy?

nope just alot of spin cause we have new president ..how does a pakistani child threaten us? why it ok to take the lives of innocents to get to one suspected terrorist ..but you cry about waterboarding the actual mastermind ,.. you sound like a JOKE ..at least me and alex are consistant when we disagree

[Defekted]

nope just alot of spin cause we have new president ..how does a pakistani child threaten us? why it ok to take the lives of innocents to get to one suspected terrorist ..but you cry about waterboarding the actual mastermind ,.. you sound like a JOKE ..at least me and alex are consistant when we disagree

who said pakistani children threaten us? if you want to have a serious debate and least post responsibly.... or you will bring this conversation down to a level you are comfortable with but which i have no time for.

who is crying about the mastermind being waterboarded? me? you think i would shed a tear if he feels the pain of 10 million paper cuts all over his body? no..... but it isnt about him, its about us....and what we do and the standards we hold ourselves with.

you are the one who isnt consistant, like i said, you are confused as usual.... you do or you dont want to bring 9/11 people to justice? you do or you dont want to arrest or kill OBL and band of thugs protecting him? Somehow now you dont have the stomach for it? but you are totally for a war with a country that did nothing to us???? wowzers. Talk about severely confused.

[jameznyhc]

who said pakistani children threaten us? if you want to have a serious debate and least post responsibly.... or you will bring this conversation down to a level you are comfortable with but which i have no time for.

who is crying about the mastermind being waterboarded? me? you think i would shed a tear if he feels the pain of 10 million paper cuts all over his body? no..... but it isnt about him, its about us....and what we do and the standards we hold ourselves with.

you arent the one who isnt consistant, like i said, you are confused as usual.... you do or you dont want to bring 9/11 people to justice? you do or you dont want to arrest or kill OBL and band of thugs protecting him? Somehow now you dont have the stomach for it? but you are totally for a war with a country that did nothing to us???? wowzers. Talk about severely confused.

yeah i want justice and i keep sayiong israeli miltary got the best policy most precision ..and fewest casulaties ..look at how few israeli soldier casualty rate is.. there no need for guerilla war in afghanistan when theyre mostly in pakistan ..i dont believe counter insurgency a real option in afghanistan sorry

[Defekted]

yeah i want justice and i keep sayiong israeli miltary got the best policy most precision ..and fewest casulaties ..look at how few israeli soldier casualty rate is.. there no need for guerilla war in afghanistan when theyre mostly in pakistan ..i dont believe counter insurgency a real option in afghanistan sorry

such a dumb statement. The F.A.T.A (Federally Administered Tribal Area), in the Pakistan/Afganistan border region where OBL is hiding is 27,220kms..... Gaza is 78 Kms....... one is filled with massive mountains and deep valleys and the other is a concrete prison. Its alot easier to find a wanted man in Gaza than in FATA, lol.... the sending a missle from the clouds over head isnt an effective way to get at OBL. He will be long dead by natural causes before we can even remotely come close to finding him...... it needs an internation force, it needs the help of the two local armies, and it needs segments of the people that are protecting him to flip on him...... or at the very least to lay down their weapons (counter insurgency).

[jameznyhc]

such a dumb statement. The F.A.T.A (Federally Administered Tribal Area), in the Pakistan/Afganistan border region where OBL is hiding is 27,220kms..... Gaza is 78 Kms....... one is filled with massive mountains and deep valleys and the other is a concrete prison. Its alot easier to find a wanted man in Gaza than in FATA, lol.... the sending a missle from the clouds over head isnt an effective way to get at OBL. He will be long dead by natural causes before we can even remotely come close to finding him...... it needs an internation force, it needs the help of the two local armies, and it needs segments of the people that are protecting him to flip on him...... or at the very least to lay down their weapons (counter insurgency).

most of the wanted terrorists fled gaza israel kills them all over the middle east ..much better precision ..again you said shock and awe killed 600,000 iraqis ..yet a 3 weeks bombing campaign day and night only resulted in 1000 deaths in such a tightly densely populated area ..

[Defekted]

most of the wanted terrorists fled gaza israel kills them all over the middle east ..much better precision ..again you said shock and awe killed 600,000 iraqis ..yet a 3 weeks bombing campaign day and night only resulted in 1000 deaths in such a tightly densely populated area ..

I said 6 years of war killed 600k not just shock and awe. And that isnt a mark to hold the standard too, lol, its terrible also. And we should be ashamed of oursleves....all for bullshit too.... Iraq is the pinnacle of a criminal war - goes even above Israel's invasion of gaza and the lebanese war. You wont find an arguement with me there bud...... hence why i want ALLLLLLLLLL the dirty shit out, the record set straight, and those who lied and cooked the books get sent to jail.

[jameznyhc]

I said 6 years of war killed 600k not just shock and awe. And that isnt a mark to hold the standard too, lol, its terrible also. And we should be ashamed of oursleves....all for bullshit too.... Iraq is the pinnacle of a criminal war - goes even above Israel's invasion of gaza and the lebanese war. You wont find an arguement with me there bud...... hence why i want ALLLLLLLLLL the dirty shit out, the record set straight, and those who lied and cooked the books get sent to jail.

too bad barry sold ya libs out ..50 k troops until 2012 lol ..his entire presidency ..yet this is the same guy who campaigned on ending Iraq since 2004 ... if we elected McCain there would be no difference except less troops going to afghanistan ..mccain wanted to send 5k .. 10k max .. barry a bigger warmonger lol

[Defekted]

too bad barry sold ya libs out ..50 k troops until 2012 lol ..his entire presidency ..yet this is the same guy who campaigned on ending Iraq since 2004 ... if we elected McCain there would be no difference except less troops going to afghanistan ..mccain wanted to send 5k .. 10k max .. barry a bigger warmonger lol

There is a difference between leaving a country where you have 160k troops there, a country in pieces, utterly destroyed by the war in every convievable way imaginable, whose fragile future hangs in the balance, and leaving in a responsible way with agreements from all involved under a status of forces deal...... compared to WAGING THE WAR in the first place. One is inherited and has to be dealt with responsibly, even if you were dead set against it from the beginning, and the other is just plain criminal....... Dont forget, all this shit Obama inherited, iraq, afganistan, gitmo, torture, patriot act, etc..... its a MILLION times harder to undo toxic policy and its future consequences than to DO them in the first place (any chimp can do that). Obama is doing his best but it takes time.

If obama starts a preemptive war with iran, takes prisoners and torture them in some remote location, and lies to the american public for it all - ummmm yea i will be the first person rioting in these streets for new leadership. However the truth of the matter is he isnt doing that, he is dealing with the mess that the idiots in the previous administration created.

[metfan85]

he didn't think so...

http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:l_CdTYoP2pJbIM:http://files.meetup.com/502939/Ron%2520Paul%2520face%2520Stencil%2520-%2520Revolution.jpg

[jameznyhc]

There is a difference between leaving a country where you have 160k troops there, a country in pieces, utterly destroyed by the war in every convievable way imaginable, whose fragile future hangs in the balance, and leaving in a responsible way with agreements from all involved under a status of forces deal...... compared to WAGING THE WAR in the first place. One is inherited and has to be dealt with responsibly, even if you were dead set against it from the beginning, and the other is just plain criminal....... Dont forget, all this shit Obama inherited, iraq, afganistan, gitmo, torture, patriot act, etc..... its a MILLION times harder to undo toxic policy and its future consequences than to DO them in the first place (any chimp can do that). Obama is doing his best but it takes time.

If obama starts a preemptive war with iran, takes prisoners and torture them in some remote location, and lies to the american public for it all - ummmm yea i will be the first person rioting in these streets for new leadership. However the truth of the matter is he isnt doing that, he is dealing with the mess that the idiots in the previous administration created.

true he inherited it but we were told he would end those policies ..not continue doing what bush did ..and he also trying bush policy in iraq in afghanistan now ..again how is todays taliban more threating than saddam?

and all we heard was we have to leave asap since 2004 .. he lied bro .. he had no intention of leaving iraq ..now what happens if violence explodes there again? lol ..why not leave now? if you were ready to leave during the chaos of 2005-surge

we are killing innocent pakistanis there no one left to torture after our drones make the hits ..some moral high ground lol

[metfan85]

and all we heard was we have to leave asap since 2004 .. he lied bro .. he had no intention of leaving iraq ..now what happens if violence explodes there again? lol ..why not leave now? if you were ready to leave during the chaos of 2005-surge

we are killing innocent pakistanis there no one left to torture after our drones make the hits ..some moral high ground lol

thanks for admitting the surge didn't work. If the surge worked we wouldn't be worried about violence picking up again. Which it has by the way, you might not have heard that they stopped paying off the tribes to pay for the national police force.

[jameznyhc]

thanks for admitting the surge didn't work. If the surge worked we wouldn't be worried about violence picking up again. Which it has by the way, you might not have heard that they stopped paying off the tribes to pay for the national police force.


the surge worked it was to secure iraq from becoming

A) supersized Iran

B) Al Qaeda run terrorist state

and it worked ..it ended awhile ago ..my question is why we still there?..is al qaeda that much of a factor still?..people are driniking and partying at night lol hardly a warzone..not sure if al qaeda ready to take obver that country again ..

as for sectarian violence thats just life in middle east ..nobody ever imagined that would go away ..but who cares as long as it aint al qaeda or iran taking control of the country

[jameznyhc]

thanks for admitting the surge didn't work. If the surge worked we wouldn't be worried about violence picking up again. Which it has by the way, you might not have heard that they stopped paying off the tribes to pay for the national police force.

so if they stopped the payments why no civil war?

[metfan85]

Paying Insurgents Not to Fight (http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts235.html) by Paul Craig Roberts

he wrote the Kemp-Roth bill and was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is author or coauthor of eight books, including The Supply-Side Revolution (Harvard University Press). He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair in Political Economy, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He has contributed to numerous scholarly journals and testified before Congress on 30 occasions. He has been awarded the U.S. Treasury's Meritorious Service Award and the French Legion of Honor. He was a reviewer for the Journal of Political Economy under editor Robert Mundell. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions. He is also coauthor with Karen Araujo of Chile: Dos Visiones – La Era Allende-Pinochet (Santiago: Universidad Andres Bello, 2000).

[jameznyhc]

Paying Insurgents Not to Fight (http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts235.html) by Paul Craig Roberts

he wrote the Kemp-Roth bill and was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is author or coauthor of eight books, including The Supply-Side Revolution (Harvard University Press). He has held numerous academic appointments, including the William E. Simon Chair in Political Economy, Center for Strategic and International Studies, Georgetown University and Senior Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University. He has contributed to numerous scholarly journals and testified before Congress on 30 occasions. He has been awarded the U.S. Treasury's Meritorious Service Award and the French Legion of Honor. He was a reviewer for the Journal of Political Economy under editor Robert Mundell. He is the co-author of The Tyranny of Good Intentions. He is also coauthor with Karen Araujo of Chile: Dos Visiones – La Era Allende-Pinochet (Santiago: Universidad Andres Bello, 2000).

how come to good ole cash aint doing shit in afghanistan? if its just paying people not to fight? what the bounty on obama? ..lol and barry thinks counter insurgency gonna work .. yeah ok

[metfan85]

how come to good ole cash aint doing shit in afghanistan? if its just paying people not to fight? what the bounty on obama? ..lol and barry thinks counter insurgency gonna work .. yeah ok

apples and oranges bro, you know that, every one does. 2 totally different countries, many different people, and even more different cultures.

[jameznyhc]

apples and oranges bro, you know that, every one does. 2 totally different countries, many different people, and even more different cultures.

and no attacks on the natives ...in Iraq you had suicide bomber blowing the natives up day and night ..

[digital kemical]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2037444.stm

Jose Padilla, a US citizen, has been convicted of plotting to kill people overseas and of supporting terrorism.

But he first gained notoriety when he was arrested on suspicion of plotting a "dirty bomb" attack inside the US.

Of Puerto Rican origin, he was arrested at Chicago's O'Hare airport in May 2002 after stepping off a flight from Pakistan.

He was then held as an "enemy combatant" in military detention for more than three years.

His eventual indictment in 2005 on charges of conspiracy to "murder, kidnap and maim" people overseas avoided a Supreme Court battle over how long the US government could hold one of its citizens without charge.

The case was transferred to civilian jurisdiction in 2006 and came to court in May 2007.

Padilla has never been charged in relation to the alleged plot to detonate a radioactive bomb.

'Coded calls'

Padilla and his two co-defendants all denied the charges against them but, after a three-month trial in Miami, jurors took only a day-and-a-half to find all three guilty in August 2007.

Jose Padilla
The trial of Padilla and two others in Miami lasted for three months

They were convicted of conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim; conspiracy to provide material support for terrorism; and providing material support for terrorism.

Prosecutors told the court Padilla had travelled to Afghanistan in 1998 to train with the al-Qaeda terror network and that his fingerprints had been found on what they called an al-Qaeda application form.

His defence lawyers insisted he had travelled to Egypt to study Arabic and Islam.

The court also heard FBI recordings of telephone conversations in Arabic between the defendants, containing, according to the prosecution, coded references to terrorist activity.

Padilla's voice was heard on only seven of the tapes and he did not use any coded language, the FBI testified.

Gang past

Also known as Abdullah al-Muhajir, Jose Padilla had a number of run-ins with the authorities before achieving fame - or infamy - as the dirty bomb suspect.

He was arrested in Florida in 1991 over a road-rage shooting incident and spent a year in a Florida jail.

He completed his probation for aggravated assault and firing a weapon in August 1993.

Prior to that, Padilla had a number of gang-related encounters with police in Chicago - where his family had moved from New York City when he was four years old.

Neighbours quoted in the US press remember Brooklyn-born Padilla as "a nice kid who always helped his mother".

His juvenile record is sealed, but US media reported that as a teenager he started to get into trouble when he joined the Latin Kings, a Chicago street gang.

He is also alleged to have been implicated in a gangland murder when he was 13 and was confined as a juvenile offender in Illinois in 1985.

The young Jose was brought up as a Roman Catholic, and some reports say he converted to Islam while in jail.

Others say that he did so sometime in the mid-1990s, when he was living near Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

He is believed to have married an Egyptian woman.

Al-Qaeda link

He apparently dropped out of view after leaving the US in 1998. This, US officials said, was when he first visited Afghanistan.

In 2001, officials said, he made contact with Abu Zubaydah, a senior al-Qaeda commander who is in American custody and apparently co-operating with the FBI.

The US authorities alleged that al-Qaeda asked Padilla to go to Lahore in Pakistan, where he learnt how to make a dirty bomb and allegedly met several other al-Qaeda members.

There was no word on whether these meetings took place before or after the 11 September attacks on the US.