Abuela
10-22-2003, 12:24 PM
Clen and winny tabs?
View Full Version : What is the difference btwn?
GINZ
10-22-2003, 01:29 PM
CLENBUTEROL (Spiropent)
Is available in 10 - 20 mcg tablets or in the .016 mg/gram Ventapulmin Vet variety. Clenbuterol is known as a sympathomimetic. These hormones are taken to mimic adrenaline and noradrenaline in the human body. Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist that is used to stimulate the beta receptors in fat and muscle tissue in the body. Clenbuterol exhibits most of it's effects on the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta receptors. Clenbuterol is really one of bodybuilding's most misunderstood performance enhancement drugs. It is true that it is effective in helping to burn bodyfat but it is often been stated that clenbuterol is effective in causing anabolic gains and has in times even been compared to some of the weaker anabolic steroids. Books such as the World Anabolic Review, 1996, by P. Grunding and M. Bachmann state incorrectly that, "its effects, however, can by all means be compared to those of steroids. Similar to a combination of Winstrol Depot and Oxandrolone...." These statements are inaccurate and misleading to say the least. A lot of these claims as to the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are derived from studying the effects of clenbuterol on livestock. Clenbuterol is effective in increasing muscle mass and decreasing fat loss in animals.
The problem with the variation in anabolic effects between humans and livestock is that livestock have an abundance of the type 3 beta receptors whereas humans have little if any of the type 3 beta receptors. These beta-3 receptors increases insulin secretion and sensitivity, causing more glucose and amino acids to be transported into skeletal muscle thus causing the anabolic effects that we, humans, just aren't seeing. As Dan Duchaine stated in his Muscle Media article on clenbuterol, "In those animal research studies showing an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, it's my guess the anabolism happens specifically when the beta2 receptor stops working. At that point, the beta3 increases and causes the anabolic effect through insulin mechanisms." Since humans, again, have either very little or no beta-3 receptors, there is no chance of this anabolic effect. Just another of the studies where everyone assumed that what works in animals must work in humans. This is just simply not the case with clenbuterol.
Clenbuterol does work effectively as a fat burner though. It does this by slight increases in the body temperature. With each degree that the temperature in your body is raised from the use of clenbuterol, you will burn up approximately an extra 5% of maintenance calories. This makes it effective as a fat burner. Your body will fight this by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta receptor down regulation which explains why you only have a limited effective period to take clenbuterol. While I am on the subject of beta receptor down regulation, I would like to dispose of another myth. This involves the two on/two off cycling theory that I believe was originated by Bill Phillips in the Anabolic Reference Guide and has somehow made it's was into every other steroid book since then including the WAR and Physical Enhancement with an Edge. The two on-two off theory simply will not work because of one main reason: the half life of clenbuterol. This 2-on/2-off idea was a THEORY ONLY, not by a doctor or scientist, and not based on specific knowledge of clenbuterol, but derived by imitation from other drug's with shorter half lives. Clenbuterol has been reported as having a half life of about 2 days, but that is not actually correct, since it has biphasic elimination, with the half-life of the rapid phase being about 10 hours, and the slower phase being several days. Supposedly, this is one of the reasons the FDA never approved clenbuterol as an anti-asthmatic drug...the FDA frowns on drugs with long half-lives if drugs with more normal half-lives are available. So with a 2-on/2-off cycle you never have time to get enough of the clenbuterol out of your system for this theory to be reasonable. In actuality, it probably hasn't even dropped to 50% of your peak concentration before you are taking the drug again. With this all taken into account, there is no reason to think that this cycling would significantly reduce the problem of receptor desensitization. A more reasonable approach would be either one week on, one week off, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off. The two week cycle has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. This crash period can be helped with the use of ephedrine to lessen the lethargy that you will experience.
If you are interested in taking clenbuterol for anything other than fat loss then you might as well stay away from this compound. There is a lot of talk as to how clenbuterol compares to ephedrine as well. Most "experts" feel that clen gives a better bang for the buck than the ECA stack. It should be noted that clenbuterols results and effects are much shorter lived. They work through very similar mechanisms. Both products stimulate the beta-receptors but clenbuterol seems to be a more refined version, called a second generation beta-agonist drug, than ephedrine. Clenbuterol targets the proper receptors, being the beta-2 and 3 receptors than ephedrine more specifically which should in theory make clenbuterol more effective of a fat burner. Again, most of the so called "experts" say that clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. I, personally, get worse results with clen vs. the good old ECA stack. Clenbuterol also didn't blunt my hunger either and I ate more while taking it as well. I also seem to get much better effects out of cytomel as a fat burner as well. Even better than the ECA stack or clenbuterol. But, again, that is my personal opinion.
Effective Dose
80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful.
Street Price
$.50 - 1.00 / tab. Fairly inexpensive in Mexico though. Spiropent is currently going for about $7.50/box, Novegam for $5.25/box, and Oxyflux for about $3.30/box. Stacking Info One week on, one week off might make sense, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off makes sense but has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. You can take ephedrine after the clen to help reduce this "crash" period or at least make it more bearable for you. The two on/two off theory is absolute bullshit and can't work; read above.
Is available in 10 - 20 mcg tablets or in the .016 mg/gram Ventapulmin Vet variety. Clenbuterol is known as a sympathomimetic. These hormones are taken to mimic adrenaline and noradrenaline in the human body. Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist that is used to stimulate the beta receptors in fat and muscle tissue in the body. Clenbuterol exhibits most of it's effects on the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta receptors. Clenbuterol is really one of bodybuilding's most misunderstood performance enhancement drugs. It is true that it is effective in helping to burn bodyfat but it is often been stated that clenbuterol is effective in causing anabolic gains and has in times even been compared to some of the weaker anabolic steroids. Books such as the World Anabolic Review, 1996, by P. Grunding and M. Bachmann state incorrectly that, "its effects, however, can by all means be compared to those of steroids. Similar to a combination of Winstrol Depot and Oxandrolone...." These statements are inaccurate and misleading to say the least. A lot of these claims as to the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are derived from studying the effects of clenbuterol on livestock. Clenbuterol is effective in increasing muscle mass and decreasing fat loss in animals.
The problem with the variation in anabolic effects between humans and livestock is that livestock have an abundance of the type 3 beta receptors whereas humans have little if any of the type 3 beta receptors. These beta-3 receptors increases insulin secretion and sensitivity, causing more glucose and amino acids to be transported into skeletal muscle thus causing the anabolic effects that we, humans, just aren't seeing. As Dan Duchaine stated in his Muscle Media article on clenbuterol, "In those animal research studies showing an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, it's my guess the anabolism happens specifically when the beta2 receptor stops working. At that point, the beta3 increases and causes the anabolic effect through insulin mechanisms." Since humans, again, have either very little or no beta-3 receptors, there is no chance of this anabolic effect. Just another of the studies where everyone assumed that what works in animals must work in humans. This is just simply not the case with clenbuterol.
Clenbuterol does work effectively as a fat burner though. It does this by slight increases in the body temperature. With each degree that the temperature in your body is raised from the use of clenbuterol, you will burn up approximately an extra 5% of maintenance calories. This makes it effective as a fat burner. Your body will fight this by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta receptor down regulation which explains why you only have a limited effective period to take clenbuterol. While I am on the subject of beta receptor down regulation, I would like to dispose of another myth. This involves the two on/two off cycling theory that I believe was originated by Bill Phillips in the Anabolic Reference Guide and has somehow made it's was into every other steroid book since then including the WAR and Physical Enhancement with an Edge. The two on-two off theory simply will not work because of one main reason: the half life of clenbuterol. This 2-on/2-off idea was a THEORY ONLY, not by a doctor or scientist, and not based on specific knowledge of clenbuterol, but derived by imitation from other drug's with shorter half lives. Clenbuterol has been reported as having a half life of about 2 days, but that is not actually correct, since it has biphasic elimination, with the half-life of the rapid phase being about 10 hours, and the slower phase being several days. Supposedly, this is one of the reasons the FDA never approved clenbuterol as an anti-asthmatic drug...the FDA frowns on drugs with long half-lives if drugs with more normal half-lives are available. So with a 2-on/2-off cycle you never have time to get enough of the clenbuterol out of your system for this theory to be reasonable. In actuality, it probably hasn't even dropped to 50% of your peak concentration before you are taking the drug again. With this all taken into account, there is no reason to think that this cycling would significantly reduce the problem of receptor desensitization. A more reasonable approach would be either one week on, one week off, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off. The two week cycle has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. This crash period can be helped with the use of ephedrine to lessen the lethargy that you will experience.
If you are interested in taking clenbuterol for anything other than fat loss then you might as well stay away from this compound. There is a lot of talk as to how clenbuterol compares to ephedrine as well. Most "experts" feel that clen gives a better bang for the buck than the ECA stack. It should be noted that clenbuterols results and effects are much shorter lived. They work through very similar mechanisms. Both products stimulate the beta-receptors but clenbuterol seems to be a more refined version, called a second generation beta-agonist drug, than ephedrine. Clenbuterol targets the proper receptors, being the beta-2 and 3 receptors than ephedrine more specifically which should in theory make clenbuterol more effective of a fat burner. Again, most of the so called "experts" say that clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. I, personally, get worse results with clen vs. the good old ECA stack. Clenbuterol also didn't blunt my hunger either and I ate more while taking it as well. I also seem to get much better effects out of cytomel as a fat burner as well. Even better than the ECA stack or clenbuterol. But, again, that is my personal opinion.
Effective Dose
80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful.
Street Price
$.50 - 1.00 / tab. Fairly inexpensive in Mexico though. Spiropent is currently going for about $7.50/box, Novegam for $5.25/box, and Oxyflux for about $3.30/box. Stacking Info One week on, one week off might make sense, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off makes sense but has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. You can take ephedrine after the clen to help reduce this "crash" period or at least make it more bearable for you. The two on/two off theory is absolute bullshit and can't work; read above.
vman
10-22-2003, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Dal mare
Clen and winny tabs? What are you looking to do?
Clen and winny tabs? What are you looking to do?
GINZ
10-22-2003, 01:30 PM
Brand names: Stromba, Winstrol.
One obvious difference between Winstrol Depot and other injectables is that it is not esterified, being sold as aqueous stanozolol suspension. (It should not be called water-soluble: virtually none of it is dissolved in the water.) This means that it does not have a classical half-life, where at time x the level is ½ the starting level, at time 2 x the level is ¼, at time 3 x the level is 1/8, etc. Instead, the microcrystals slowly dissolve, and when they have all dissolved levels of the drug then fall very rapidly.
It's a very effective steroid, with great anabolic effects. Unfortunately a lot of people use it wrong, with a much to low dosage. the injectable version should be used with a dosage of minimum 300 mg per week, preferably 400-500, while the oral version should be used with a daily dosage of 50-60 mg per day. Using these dosages, you will experience great gains and rock-hard muscles using only Winstrol.
It will give you even better gains if you stack it with one of the testosterone esters, for example Testoviron, Testex or Theramex. It can also be stacked with other anabolic steroids, like Deca Durabolin.
The injectable version can give you a very uncomfortable cycle, because it tends to give a sore injection site. To avoid or minimize this, you can inject 2-3 ml every other/third day, or if you stack it with an oil-based steroid, mix the oil based and the Winstrol in the same syringe and inject it. This will reduce the amount of injections.
Some users also claim that injectable Winstrol give local muscle growth, and therefor inject it directly into their biceps, triceps or delts to get better local gains
One obvious difference between Winstrol Depot and other injectables is that it is not esterified, being sold as aqueous stanozolol suspension. (It should not be called water-soluble: virtually none of it is dissolved in the water.) This means that it does not have a classical half-life, where at time x the level is ½ the starting level, at time 2 x the level is ¼, at time 3 x the level is 1/8, etc. Instead, the microcrystals slowly dissolve, and when they have all dissolved levels of the drug then fall very rapidly.
It's a very effective steroid, with great anabolic effects. Unfortunately a lot of people use it wrong, with a much to low dosage. the injectable version should be used with a dosage of minimum 300 mg per week, preferably 400-500, while the oral version should be used with a daily dosage of 50-60 mg per day. Using these dosages, you will experience great gains and rock-hard muscles using only Winstrol.
It will give you even better gains if you stack it with one of the testosterone esters, for example Testoviron, Testex or Theramex. It can also be stacked with other anabolic steroids, like Deca Durabolin.
The injectable version can give you a very uncomfortable cycle, because it tends to give a sore injection site. To avoid or minimize this, you can inject 2-3 ml every other/third day, or if you stack it with an oil-based steroid, mix the oil based and the Winstrol in the same syringe and inject it. This will reduce the amount of injections.
Some users also claim that injectable Winstrol give local muscle growth, and therefor inject it directly into their biceps, triceps or delts to get better local gains
Abuela
10-22-2003, 01:44 PM
I am looking to drop the body fat around my stomach and I need to rip up fast!
Louie Corrales
10-22-2003, 02:06 PM
AB EXERCISES... proper diet... and cardio... will burn those extra lbs right off...
TheHipHopBillGates
10-22-2003, 03:05 PM
fuck cardio.
vman
10-22-2003, 03:31 PM
Def. dont do the winny. It might help but you dont sound like your ready. I wouldnt do either if i were you. Just Eat very clean and do cardio before you eat in the morning.
Dana-d
10-22-2003, 03:32 PM
"You will experience great gains and rock-hard muscles using only Winstrol"
..however girls only need to take 1 blue pill a day..
you'll see major results in 9 days but u have to do cardio..
You'll be happy :D trust me!
..however girls only need to take 1 blue pill a day..
you'll see major results in 9 days but u have to do cardio..
You'll be happy :D trust me!
vman
10-22-2003, 03:32 PM
One more thing, if you decide to do the clen, you still have to eat right and do cardio. It MIGHT help you lose the weight faster but not too much faster. Its not a miracle drug.
Dana-d
10-22-2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by vman
Def. dont do the winny. It might help but you dont sound like your ready. I wouldnt do either if i were you. Just Eat very clean and do cardio before you eat in the morning.
I've done it and I LOVED THEM!!!
.... it just gives you that extra umph till u get where you wanna be, then come off.
Def. dont do the winny. It might help but you dont sound like your ready. I wouldnt do either if i were you. Just Eat very clean and do cardio before you eat in the morning.
I've done it and I LOVED THEM!!!
.... it just gives you that extra umph till u get where you wanna be, then come off.
vman
10-22-2003, 04:05 PM
Have long have you been training for?
vman
10-22-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by vman
Dana, How long have you been training for?
Dana, How long have you been training for?
Abuela
10-22-2003, 04:24 PM
I have been training since 1997..
On and off.
Past 6mts hard core.. 5x a week...
On and off.
Past 6mts hard core.. 5x a week...
vman
10-22-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Dal mare
I have been training since 1997..
On and off.
Past 6mts hard core.. 5x a week... I would say that the negatives out weigh the benefits, especially for a girl but I'm an all-natural guy, so your probably asking the wrong person. ITS ALL ABOUT YOUR DIET, especially for women.
I have been training since 1997..
On and off.
Past 6mts hard core.. 5x a week... I would say that the negatives out weigh the benefits, especially for a girl but I'm an all-natural guy, so your probably asking the wrong person. ITS ALL ABOUT YOUR DIET, especially for women.
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