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Chicago
10-22-2003, 01:47 PM
After a Deadly Attack, Arab Rage and Israeli Videotape
By JAMES BENNET

USEIRAT REFUGEE CAMP, Gaza Strip, Oct. 21 — It is not unusual for Israelis and Palestinians to have opposing, vivid versions of reality.

But it is unusual for both sides to display the kind of concrete, if conflicting, evidence that they presented Tuesday for the violence that convulsed the main street here on Monday night.

The Palestinians had their grief and their rage, their seven dead and their many wounded. The Israeli Air Force had its videotape.

Palestinian witness after Palestinian witness told the same story: an Israeli rocket struck near a car; then, after two, three or perhaps five minutes passed, a second rocket hit near the same spot.

By then, according to this version, a crowd had gathered. Dr. Zain al-Abedin Shaheen, 29, had had time to run down the street from his clinic to help the wounded; Muhammad Baroud, 12, had had time to dash out of his house. Both, with others, died in the second blast, Palestinians here said.

"They are killers," Muhammad's father, Ziad, 42, said of the Israelis. Having been sent by his wife to retrieve his son after the first blast, Mr. Baroud was wounded in his right knee, left hip, left wrist and neck by shrapnel from what he said was the second rocket.

Dozens were reported wounded, and sirens wailed into the night on Monday as ambulances rushed the casualties north to Gaza City.

Yet, after the missile strike and four other air attacks in Gaza on Monday prompted unusual criticism from within Israel, the air force took the rare step on Tuesday of showing reporters parts of a videotape it said had been taken by a drone flying above the street. The tape presented a very different scene.

The black-and-white images, which the drone transmitted live to commanders directing the helicopter crew that fired the missiles, showed a first missile striking the hood of a car traveling an empty street.

The car, which Israel said contained Hamas militants, continued for about 50 yards until it appeared to bump a curb. Then it backed up almost to its original spot. A single person appeared to be approaching when the car was destroyed in a direct hit by a second missile. The strikes were a minute apart.

It was at least 90 seconds after the second blast that dozens of people were seen leaving their houses to surround the wreckage. Moments later, the video presentation halted. A senior air force officer acknowledged that there was more tape but declined to show it, saying there was nothing more of interest to see.

"We would not allow any munition to be launched on a massive gathering of people," the officer said. "To fire into a crowd is not professional, it is not ethical and it's not moral."

Palestinian hospital officials reported on Monday night that eight people had been killed here. But seven bodies, including that of Muhammad, who was wrapped tight as a mummy in a green Hamas flag, were carried Tuesday by a chanting crowd of thousands through the missile-pitted street, past a blocklong "condolence tent" set up for the grieving families.

Inside the houses, weeping women mourned separately. Outside, gunmen fired semiautomatic rifles into the air. Against the cinder-block walls, masked Hamas militants armed with hatchets spray-painted tributes to the dead, claiming them as martyrs and heaping them onto their pile of grievances.

Hamas vowed to retaliate.

Alex Fishman, perhaps Israel's foremost military journalist, wondered Tuesday in the pages of the largest daily newspaper, Yediot Ahronot, what "red lines" Israel still imposed on itself. "How long can we hurt innocent civilians?" he asked. "Is it conceivable that somebody on our side has decided that all of Palestinian society is the target?"

He also asked if the military method used Monday "actually intensifies and broadens the circles of hatred for generations." He called this a "war without questions," in which any Israeli who questioned such military tactics was branded a traitor.

Israeli military officers say it is the militants who endanger Palestinian civilians by hiding among them, preparing their suicide bombings and rocket attacks. "There is no neat and clean way to fight terrorism that is harbored in urban areas," the senior air force officer said.

He said both missiles used Monday night carried only a "few" pounds of explosives, which he said should not be able to spray shrapnel more than five or six yards in any direction.

The videotape showed a much larger explosion during the second missile strike. The officer speculated that there might have been explosives in the car.

Of the five Israeli attacks on Monday, three were against two buildings in Gaza City that Israel said served as factories and warehouses for Hamas munitions.

In a fourth strike, Israel killed two Hamas members with a rocket fired at their car in Gaza City. The driver of the following car was also killed. Hospital officials reported a total of 30 people wounded in those four strikes.

The Israeli bombardment came after Hamas militants launched eight crude rockets over Gaza's fenced boundary on Sunday. The rockets did not cause casualties.

The Israeli action here was of a different nature. According to the Israeli Army, soldiers spotted militants trying to cross Gaza's fence. It said the soldiers opened fire, killing two men on the spot, while others escaped in a car.

It was that getaway car, the army said, that the helicopter gunships hunted down here. Two Hamas men died in the car, the army said.

Salah Muhammad Hamdan, a 50-year-old teacher, said he was walking home with his wife when he saw the first missile hit just in front of the car about 150 yards away.

Several people were wounded, he said, but though they cried to him for help he concentrated on hurrying himself and his wife home. Then, after about two minutes, a second missile hit, he said, wounding himself and his wife. "I'm not a fighter; I'm a peaceful man," he said, as he lay in a hospital bed in Gaza City. "Why did they hit us?"

The videotape did not show any wounded people lying in the street after the first missile struck, or any couple hurrying along the sidewalk.

admin
10-22-2003, 01:59 PM
Israel should of showed the full video, otherwise it looks shady.

Chicago
10-22-2003, 03:34 PM
israel's known for being extremely tight lipped about military operations. why show the whole video when a two minute clip proves your point? (AND if you're not lying . .don't care what the haters think)

raver_mania
10-22-2003, 04:59 PM
This is interesting indeed.
And Chicago to answer your question - the contrasting eyewitness reports suggest that the explosion that wounded the many Palestinian bystanders supposedly occured 3 to 5 minutes after the first one. Since the IDF has a full 10 minutes of tape after that first strike, the remaining tape should shed some more light on what really happened.
If you've already gone as far as showing the tape, why not seal the deal by showing more of it (at least the part that covers the contraversy)...I agree with Dmitry - it looks very shady now showing more.

Chicago
10-22-2003, 05:15 PM
i'm thinking that Israel's stance is "why should we?"

and it's easy for us to speculate . .but hte simple fact is that Israel does not reveal info on military operations. period. it violates policy which even if not in this case could result in the loss of israeli lives. period.

but they felt compelled to show the video this time b/c they're dealing w/the PR war and i dunno . .they just felt compelled.

Chicago
10-22-2003, 05:16 PM
plus raver mania . .aren't both sides saying that only two missiles hit . . .and if in the span of several minutes we see two missiles hit . .why go further and jeopordize lives or policy integrity.

raver_mania
10-23-2003, 11:10 AM
Here's the version for Haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/352776.html

4 non-combatants were killed in Monday's air strikes on Gaza
By Arnon Regular

Twelve Palestinians, including four civilians who
had no affiliation with militant groups, were
killed during the Israel Air Force strikes on the
Gaza Strip on Monday, Haaretz has established,
relying on Palestinian and foreign sources. Eight
of the 12 fatalities belonged to armed Palestinian
groups, and were the declared targets of IDF
actions.


About 100 more Palestinians
were wounded in the air
strikes. Most sustained light
injuries, but 26 persons have
moderate to serious wounds.
One of these, an 11-year-old
child, is in critical
condition.

On the basis of information
supplied by Palestinian sources, Monday's
sequence of events has been reconstructed as
follows:

On Monday at 8 A.M., an initial IAF bombing of a
two-story building in the Sejeiyeh
neighborhood, in the eastern part of Gaza City,
wounded 11 people. The building contained a
weapons production lab run by Hamas operatives;
the building is owned by a family that is known
to have close connections with Hamas. At the
time of the bombing, one family member, Amar
Mushtaha, was in the weapons lab, eyewitnesses
said; he was seen leaving the building, with
light injuries.

Some two hours after the initial bombing, IDF
helicopters fired at a Peugeot van, which was
seen leaving the scene of the first bombing.
Hamas operatives had packed the vehicle with
pipes and chemical substances, which apparently
were to be used in the production of Qassam
rockets, the sources say.

Three people were killed by an IDF missile fired
at the van, which was standing on Aljalaa
Street, Gaza City's main thoroughfare. Two of
the dead, Iyad Khalu and Khaled Almsari, who
were known Hamas members, were inside the
vehicle at the time. The third fatality in this
attack was Marwan al-Khatib, an unsuspecting
civilian who was in a car next to the van.
Sixteen Palestinians were wounded, including
five women (one was a mother who was hurt along
with her 2-year-old son) and two other youths.

A short time after the strike on Aljalaa Street,
the IAF attacked a two-room, asbestos-roofed
structure located in a grove in the northeast
part of Gaza City. According to sources, this
structure was a makeshift arsenal that held
Hamas weapons. Nobody was injured in this
strike.

The strike that left the largest number of
casualties occurred at 9 P.M., at the entry to
the main street in the Nusseirat refugee camp,
in the central part of the Gaza Strip. At the
time of the strike, the relatively wide street
was packed with residents, who sat in
restaurants, or on porches of buildings.

In this attack, the IDF fired missiles at a
Subaru vehicle that held three men from Fatah
and the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine. They were fleeing from the IDF,
after having dropped off two terrorists close
to the Gaza Strip's electronic fence. The
missile killed Mohammed Almsari, 23, the car's
driver, and two passengers, Atiya Muanas, 20,
and Mahdi Abu Jerbua, 20. Another Hamas member,
Alkhalim Tabaza, 23, who apparently did not
belong to the group that fled the IDF, was
killed in this incident as well.

Three civilians who apparently had no
affiliation with Palestinian organizations were
also killed: Dr. Zein Shahin, who was on his
way to a nearby clinic to treat patients; a
12-year-old boy; and Ahmed Khalifa, 49, who was
seated at a nearby restaurant. Some 60 others
were injured, most of them not seriously.

Earlier, two Popular Front members, Khadi Ayash,
23, and Ali Abu Taha, 21, were killed in a
clash at the Gaza border fence in the clash
leading to the IDF pursuit that culminated in
the Nusseirat attack.

jameznyhc
10-26-2003, 01:23 PM
Hooray for israel....palestinians never care who they hurt or kill and after they bombed that bus load of women and children returning from prayer that day was the end of anything civilized...if palestine wants to be free why dont they target politicians and military why murder innocent people???But the only change that can happen is if they stop brainwashing palestinian children from age 5 to hate israelis and westerners ....these same books are read in saudi arabia as well....these people are fanatics there is no compromise