NABLUS, West Bank — Masked Palestinian gunmen killed two men suspected of being informers for Israel, then displayed their bodies Thursday in the central square of a West Bank refugee camp, witnesses and Palestinian security officials said.
raver_mania
10-24-2003, 12:16 AM
Apparently they were Israeli collaborators - and the information they leaked resulted in the deaths of two or three militants (one whom Israel had been looking for over a year).
Granted, they didn't get as much rights as say in the US, and displaying their bodies was not necessary, but what do you think the penalty for treason in the US is? Especially when that treason results in the deaths of fellow soldiers? Quite severe.
I'm all for prosecuting these guys for atrocities they commit but this situation does not warrant such a response. Especially when a country like the US still has the death penalty.
darius
10-24-2003, 01:00 PM
palestinian militants are modern day heathens. u can not in any way compare how they handle matters of treason with that of the US. we are a more civilized society. palestinian militants only recognize their archaic tribal law -- which is precisely why they don't pay any mind whatsoever to the Palestinian (lack of) Authority. the penalty for treason in the US is not necessarily death, but at least there is a trial of some sort and efforts made to disprove/prove allegations. as far as the death penalty here in the US, that's a whole different topic altogether, and unrelated to this.
jameznyhc
10-26-2003, 01:29 PM
The bottom line is palestinians murder innocent people when america or israel strike they hit hammas leaders, the taliban, we dont kill innocents in the name of god!!!!! Islamic fundamentalists are just or more dangerous than nazi germany! islam is a very intolerable religion .... there is no compromise
MsRay
10-27-2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Jameznyhc
The bottom line is palestinians murder innocent people when america or israel strike they hit hammas leaders, the taliban, we dont kill innocents in the name of god!!!!! Islamic fundamentalists are just or more dangerous than nazi germany! islam is a very intolerable religion .... there is no compromise The murder of innocent people by the militants is inexcusable, but to say that Israel has never knowingly executed a strike that would result in innocent deaths seems contrary to past events. Granted, the Israelis'(*) intent is not to kill bystanders, but that is a reasonably expected consequence of some of the strikes they have carried out. If there is a line separating the two cases, I think it's a fine one.
Also,
islam is a very intolerable religion .... there is no compromiseis Islam itself or the various interpretations and perspectives adopted by those who exalt suicide bombing to matyrdom? I don't see how Islam as a religion can in and of itself be an intolerable religion when there are many Muslims living here from different backgrounds seemingly tolerating life here.
And what is there no compromise on? Isn't that type of absolute part of the reason why progress is not made in the region?
Leon
10-28-2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by MsRay
The murder of innocent people by the militants is inexcusable, but to say that Israel has never knowingly executed a strike that would result in innocent deaths seems contrary to past events.
Agreed. The main problem with them targetting Hamas members is that there is no due process of the court. They tell people that we just straffed a car full of Hamas but that's not a civilized way to conduct this type of operations.
I don't see how Islam as a religion can in and of itself be an intolerable religion when there are many Muslims living here from different backgrounds seemingly tolerating life here.
The problem lies within Koran that does, in fact, preach violence in order to achieve the so many goals of Islam. Mohammed, Islam's prophet and one of the holiest figures, is quoted many times about his despise for infidels and how one must rid of them.
darius
10-28-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by Leon
The problem lies within Koran that does, in fact, preach violence in order to achieve the so many goals of Islam. Mohammed, Islam's prophet and one of the holiest figures, is quoted many times about his despise for infidels and how one must rid of them.
i don't think that its so much a problem than it is a catch-22 . . . in the koran, it alludes to the spirit of the individual seeking out these infidels . . . its like saying -- yeah seek out these infidels, but beware if your motives are crooked. personally, i think God has turned his back on these "infidel" slayers because their motives are driven by pure hate, their lifestyles are engulfed in self and passion -- the very things that the koran states a believer must abstain from. but of course, u won't catch any of these fanatic clergy preaching the flip-side, instead, they claim that in order to purify themselves, they must first annihilate the infidels -- which is all too self-serving to be considered in tune with what mohammed was trying to do waaaaaaaaaay back then. remember, the original infidels were the tribal, idol-worshippers and polythiests of the land, and islam provided the mechanism of delivering a monotheistic principle to their lives.
MsRay
10-28-2003, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Leon
The problem lies within Koran that does, in fact, preach violence in order to achieve the so many goals of Islam. Mohammed, Islam's prophet and one of the holiest figures, is quoted many times about his despise for infidels and how one must rid of them. Then it comes down to interpretation again. The Old Testament isn't the most peaceful-preaching collection of stories either, yet it has value for those who read the book.
Leon
10-28-2003, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by MsRay
Then it comes down to interpretation again. The Old Testament isn't the most peaceful-preaching collection of stories either, yet it has value for those who read the book.
True, the Bible is violent in nature but the vast difference is that it does not profess to kill in order to get people to submit like in Islam. Islam in itself means submission. The teachings of Jesus were of peace, "turning the other cheek" and similar tactics. What people did under the blanket of Christianity is separate in what the Bible preaches.
Darius, some good points there and I totally agree. There IS vast amount of interpretations to be had and this is why you have the moderate Muslims. Are they the majority or minority? That is the question. :)
jameznyhc
10-29-2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by Leon
Agreed. The main problem with them targetting Hamas members is that there is no due process of the court. They tell people that we just straffed a car full of Hamas but that's not a civilized way to conduct this type of operations.
The problem lies within Koran that does, in fact, preach violence in order to achieve the so many goals of Islam. Mohammed, Islam's prophet and one of the holiest figures, is quoted many times about his despise for infidels and how one must rid of them. War is never civilized and i think israel must wipe out hamas and islamic jihad to survive ...remember its takes 1 terrorist to take out a whole club or bus but it takes an entire military to seek out and find specific involved hamas and terrorist leaders. Thats why this is going to be very long and hard fight. Israel must defend there freedom and democracy at any cost necessary and targeting militant active hamas leaders is the most civilized and justified way to fight a war
.gene.
10-29-2003, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by Jameznyhc
War is never civilized and i think israel must wipe out hamas and islamic jihad to survive ...remember its takes 1 terrorist to take out a whole club or bus but it takes an entire military to seek out and find specific involved hamas and terrorist leaders. Thats why this is going to be very long and hard fight. Israel must defend there freedom and democracy at any cost necessary and targeting militant active hamas leaders is the most civilized and justified way to fight a war
yo i got your PM but no email
jameznyhc
10-29-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by MsRay
The murder of innocent people by the militants is inexcusable, but to say that Israel has never knowingly executed a strike that would result in innocent deaths seems contrary to past events. Granted, the Israelis'(*) intent is not to kill bystanders, but that is a reasonably expected consequence of some of the strikes they have carried out. If there is a line separating the two cases, I think it's a fine one.
Also,is Islam itself or the various interpretations and perspectives adopted by those who exalt suicide bombing to matyrdom? I don't see how Islam as a religion can in and of itself be an intolerable religion when there are many Muslims living here from different backgrounds seemingly tolerating life here.
And what is there no compromise on? Isn't that type of absolute part of the reason why progress is not made in the region? Of course innocent bystanders will allways be victims of war and thats why war is the most horrible and frightening situation. But to not retaliate against targeted hamas and islamic jihad militants would be even worse... israeli casulties would skyrocket. These attacks on hamas leaders are proving to be very effective and thats how you crush an organization that has no interest in negotiations do you remeber the koslo accord of 93? what happened israel gave more freedom and land to the palestians than ever before since the creation of israel and the homicide bombings skyrocketed Do you beleive this is really over land??? or deep institutionalized hatred and prejudice pounded into the school children through-out the middle east from the time they are 5years old? a culture that celebrates suicide?Are you Familiar with black september 1971 when jordan let the palestinians live in there country and the palestinians tried to overhrow the jordanian government . Well jordan just starting killing every palestianian in sight and expelled them from jordan! so why doesnt the muslim world help out the palestinians? because there is no trust in middle eastern countries. You say moderate muslims? Live in this country then why is there silence deafining? They are more concerned (american muslim/islamic organizations) About by being victims of discrimination than actually protesting what goes on there own countries where are the american flags in middle eastern neighborhoods thru out nyc and jersey? Moderat i dont think so... silence is aiding and abetting! just like when African americans were enslaved in this country and had no rights it was the decent freedom loving Americans That led to there freedom.. just think we went thru a civil war 140 years ago to smash slavery and yet in this very day and age slavery is excepted in all muslim countrys especially muslim cities in africa black on black slavery continues today, Woman are stoned to death for cheating! they must have a male chauperone to go anywhere They must cover there bodies and this is goin on today. Children are given text books preaching murder and suicide against westerners and israelis. Did you hear the speech the president of malaysia gave last week and recieved a standing ovation at the U.N. by all these dispicable dictators and kings condemed jews in the most anti-semetic public speech since adolf hitler! Why are the moderates so silent ? Why is the Left in america and europe spewing there hatred against President Bush and not these murderous enslaved woman killing societys? Remeber there is no democratic free muslim country. If we stay politically correct or silent we will be enslaved one day as well.... I Love peace but not as much as i love freedom!!!!!
Leon
10-29-2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by Jameznyhc
War is never civilized and i think israel must wipe out hamas and islamic jihad to survive ...remember its takes 1 terrorist to take out a whole club or bus but it takes an entire military to seek out and find specific involved hamas and terrorist leaders. Thats why this is going to be very long and hard fight. Israel must defend there freedom and democracy at any cost necessary and targeting militant active hamas leaders is the most civilized and justified way to fight a war
I've been there for a brief period and no person can understand the environment the terrorists have laid forth on the Israelis. I will not argue what must be done but I will point out that Israel is <a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/031103/usnews/3anti.htm">always looked upon higher</a> than the rest of people sharing this earth. Perhaps unfairly, and certainly unfairly by the UN, but nevertheless.
For the record, I am all for going after the terrorists, I disagree with the way they are going about it and would be a lot more shrewd in my dealings--albeit not any weaker.