Malaysian PM: Jewish people's past sufferings are no excuse

[raver_mania]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/355593.html

KUALA LUMPUR - Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir
Mohamad, speaking on the eve of his retirement,
said Thursday that the Jewish people's past
sufferings in Europe were no excuse for taking
Arab land and persecuting Muslims.


The 78-year-old Muslim leader,
who steps down Friday after
22 years in power, provoked
international cries of
protest two weeks ago by
saying that the Jews had
emerged from the Holocaust to
"rule this world by proxy."

A staunch supporter of the
Palestinian cause, Mahathir said the Jews were
now guilty of persecuting Muslims in the same
way that Europeans had persecuted Jews down the
ages.

"They must never think they are the chosen
people who cannot be criticized at all,"
Mahathir said Thursday when asked if he had one
last message for the world's Jews.

His October 16 speech to leaders of Islamic
nations had centered on the need for Muslims to
join the modern world, use their brains, make
peace and stamp out suicide bombing.

It also contained grudging admiration for the
way Jews had prospered despite their
persecution, but the comment on their world
influence evoked memories in the West of the
conspiracy theories used in Czarist Russia and
Nazi Germany to whip up anti-Semitism.

But Mahathir said the past suffering of Jews was
a source of sadness for Muslims.

"They suffered a great deal in the past. They
were killed, they were massacred," he said.

"We sympathize with them. We were very sad to
see how the Jews were so ill-treated by the
Europeans."

Mahathir denies being anti-Semitic and says he
has Jewish friends, but in his controversial
speech he failed to draw any distinction
between Jews, Israelis and Zionists.

He reiterated Thursday that the root problem
between Jews and Muslims was the occupation of
Arab land to form the state of Israel.

"It is not religion at all. It is territorial,"
he said. "You take somebody's land and they
will fight for it."

[Leon]

No Jews/Israelis I know even thought that they were entitled to anything based on their history.

Mahathir is leaving his position and what better way to get noticed by the world than to spin the Jew bashing in to his speeches.

[raver_mania]

I wouldn't go as far as calling it "Jew bashing". However, this guy does make some controversial speeches, even against Islam.

[Leon]

Raver, in your definition "Jews rule the world by proxy" is not Jew bashing?

[.gene.]

Raver_mania, being that majority of your posts are either a.Israel related or b.Jew related I'm curious as to why you are so obsessed with this subject?

[raver_mania]

Leon: I really don't think its bashing...an ill-formed opinion yes, but bashing might be too harsh a word. After all the rest of his speech was very positive.

gene_2k - I really don't know! I guess its my personality - I don't like oppression, especially after seeing it happen in the neighbouring country of SOuth Africa while growing up. And I don't post much clubbing related since I don't make it up to NYC as much as I used to.

[.gene.]

Originally posted by raver_mania
Leon: I really don't think its bashing...an ill-formed opinion yes, but bashing might be too harsh a word. After all the rest of his speech was very positive.

gene_2k - I really don't know! I guess its my personality - I don't like oppression, especially after seeing it happen in the neighbouring country of SOuth Africa while growing up. And I don't post much clubbing related since I don't make it up to NYC as much as I used to.


Gotcha, obviously our views on the whole "oppression" topic differ, but there are other places in the world where oppression is prevalent e.i. majority of the muslim countries, for instance towards women, and I hardly see you mention those articles so I was just curious.
How are the clubs in DC anyways? The only 1 I ever hear about is "Glow", I meant to take a trip up there one time to hear George Acosta spin there.

[raver_mania]

Originally posted by gene_2K
Gotcha, obviously our views on the whole "oppression" topic differ, but there are other places in the world where oppression is prevalent e.i. majority of the muslim countries, for instance towards women, and I hardly see you mention those articles so I was just curious.
How are the clubs in DC anyways? The only 1 I ever hear about is "Glow", I meant to take a trip up there one time to hear George Acosta spin there.

Very true, but the Israeli-Palestinian thing is right in your face all the time (news) - believe me, till about a year ago I knew very little of what was happening, but over time I read up on some stuff and got interested in it.
I also used closely follow Mugabe;s iron rule over Zimbabwe and those land seizures...but there has not been much effective international pressure on him and so he's still in power.
There is definitely a lot of oppression going on in the Arab states, but any posts to that effect turn into a Muslim-bashing affair, which I don't like. Its going to be interesting to see what transpires in Saudi.

Clubs in DC are OK - nothing compared to NYC. Glow brings in mostly trance talent (Acosta, Tiesto, Pvd, etc), but there are smaller lounges and clubs in town that play quality progressive house, and sometime techno (the styles I like). Buzz (or now called Cubik) happens every Fri night at a club called Nation (our super-club)...thats where the real action is. Buzz made the news in URB magazine last year.
People have a lot of after-parties though, which are a lot of fun.

[.gene.]

Originally posted by raver_mania
Very true, but the Israeli-Palestinian thing is right in your face all the time (news) - believe me, till about a year ago I knew very little of what was happening, but over time I read up on some stuff and got interested in it.
I also used closely follow Mugabe;s iron rule over Zimbabwe and those land seizures...but there has not been much effective international pressure on him and so he's still in power.
There is definitely a lot of oppression going on in the Arab states, but any posts to that effect turn into a Muslim-bashing affair, which I don't like. Its going to be interesting to see what transpires in Saudi.

Clubs in DC are OK - nothing compared to NYC. Glow brings in mostly trance talent (Acosta, Tiesto, Pvd, etc), but there are smaller lounges and clubs in town that play quality progressive house, and sometime techno (the styles I like). Buzz (or now called Cubik) happens every Fri night at a club called Nation (our super-club)...thats where the real action is. Buzz made the news in URB magazine last year.
People have a lot of after-parties though, which are a lot of fun.


I've actually been to Nation but it wasn't for a club night, they had a hardcore show there a few years ago & I went up with my friend's band. The place is huge.

[Leon]

Originally posted by raver_mania
Leon: I really don't think its bashing...an ill-formed opinion yes, but bashing might be too harsh a word. After all the rest of his speech was very positive.


It't not Mahathir who is ill-informed, but you probably need to read more about what he has said now and in the past about Jews, about history and the anti-simitic grand conspiracy books like The Protocols of Elder Zion which Mahathir repeated over and over.

"The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them."

It's interesting how almost every media is calling this <a href="http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-womala173498236oct17,0,6687074.story?coll=ny-worldnews-print">Jew bashing</a> and yet you offer a feeble excuse of "oh he is just "ill-informed. Interesting, but not surprising.

Btw, I thought you were Indian? How is South Africa your neighboring country now? Or did we just catch you in a huge lie.

[raver_mania]

Originally posted by Leon
It't not Mahathir who is ill-informed, but you probably need to read more about what he has said now and in the past about Jews, about history and the anti-simitic grand conspiracy books like The Protocols of Elder Zion which Mahathir repeated over and over.

"The Europeans killed six million Jews out of 12 million. But today the Jews rule this world by proxy. They get others to fight and die for them."

It's interesting how almost every media is calling this <a href="http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-womala173498236oct17,0,6687074.story?coll=ny-worldnews-print">Jew bashing</a> and yet you offer a feeble excuse of "oh he is just "ill-informed. Interesting, but not surprising.

Btw, I thought you were Indian? How is South Africa your neighboring country now? Or did we just catch you in a huge lie.

wow calm down dude. Mahathir has said a lot of thing about a lot of peole including muslims. There were many positive aspects in his message yet as usual everyone just likes to focus on negatives. Fine, you and your media call it Jew bashing - I don't.

Let me give you a detailed timeline of my background since you seem to think you've caught me in some big lie:

1974 - born in India
1976 - moved to Zambia
1983 - moved to Botswana (which borders South Africa)
1990 - came to US.

Happy?

[Leon]

Let me give you a detailed timeline of my background since you seem to think you've caught me in some big lie:

Originally posted by raver_mania

1974 - born in India
1976 - moved to Zambia
1983 - moved to Botswana (which borders South Africa)
1990 - came to US.

Happy?

Very.


wow calm down dude. Mahathir has said a lot of thing about a lot of peole including muslims. There were many positive aspects in his message yet as usual everyone just likes to focus on negatives. Fine, you and your media call it Jew bashing - I don't.


That's an excuse to bash the Jews? What if I said all Indians brought up in Africa are dirty little sluts and then bashed other nationalities, would the initial bashing not stand as such?

[raver_mania]

Originally posted by Leon
Let me give you a detailed timeline of my background since you seem to think you've caught me in some big lie:


Very.



That's an excuse to bash the Jews? What if I said all Indians brought up in Africa are dirty little sluts and then bashed other nationalities, would the initial bashing not stand as such?

Thats where you're off...if Mahathir had said that Jews were dirty little sluts, then yes thats bashing (maybe he has said that in the past, I don't know). And if you'd said Indians who were brought up in Africa rule by proxy, and have others fight for them, then no, I wouldn't consider that bashing.

[Leon]

Originally posted by raver_mania
Thats where you're off...if Mahathir had said that Jews were dirty little sluts, then yes thats bashing (maybe he has said that in the past, I don't know). And if you'd said Indians who were brought up in Africa rule by proxy, and have others fight for them, then no, I wouldn't consider that bashing.

Well, that's what I mean by you being ill-formed:


Outspoken Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad blamed the country's economic woes on a Jewish "agenda," saying Jews are "not happy to see the Muslims progress." He had previously accused financier George Soros, who is Jewish, of deliberately hurting Asia through "immoral" currency speculation. A top U.S. official called the remarks "utter nonsense."

--World Notes: Blaming the Jews
Date: 10/27/1997; Publication: Maclean's; Author:
==========================================

The 71-year-old prime minister, who has ruled Malaysia for 16 years, "still believes in the myth of an international Jewish conspiracy, the myth that motivated Hitler's Nazis," said Arthur Berger of the American Jewish Committee in New York.

"He is proclaiming an ugly canard that for centuries has been the basis for outbursts of violent anti-Semitic persecution," he said.

Malaysia has virtually no Jews among its people. But Mr. Mahathir's outburst proved "that you don't have to have Jews to have anti-Semites," said Malcolm Hoehlein, executive director of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish Organizations.


-- Malaysian leader's charges anger American Jews: `Agenda' torpedoed his country's currency, he says.(World)
Date: 10/15/1997; Publication: The Washington Times; Author: Sieff, Martin

========================================

When the Asian economic crisis hit Malaysia back in 1997, Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad came out with guns blazing. In notorious outbursts, he blamed foreign speculators and Jews for his country's woes. He imposed currency controls in September that set off reverberations worldwide. Then the crackdown that led to the firing, arrest, and trial of his deputy, Anwar Ibrahim, upset even Malaysia's usually reticent neighbors and set off the worst street violence in Malaysia's recent history--which Mahathir quashed with harsh police tactics.

--Business Week International Editions: Asian Business: MALAYSIA : MEET MAHATHIR, THE POPULIST
Date: 01/25/1999; Publication: Business Week International; Author: Jonathan Moore in Kuala Lumpur
============================

After a critical 1986 article in The Wall Street Journal he said the paper was controlled by Jews and part of a Zionist plot to overthrow his regime. And in 1993 he prohibited Steven Spielberg's holocaust film, Schindler's List, from being shown because of its alleged pro-Israeli bias.


--Worldbeaters.(Malaysia's prime minister Mohamad Mahathir)(Brief Article)
Date: 08/01/2001; Publication: New Internationalist


The standing ovation the Malaysian prime minister received and the subsequent defense of his remarks by almost all the participants at the meeting of Muslim leaders suggests that rather than feeding his Muslim public "rhetorical red meat," the Malaysian leader was simply restating anti-Semitic beliefs that are unfortunately popular throughout the Muslim world, even in so-called moderate states like Malaysia.

What's troubling in this debate is that you are supporting a known Jew basher and you either are ignorant or indifferent because it matches your own opinion of the Jews.

[raver_mania]

Well, in this case I'd say not completely informed of his previous remarks. Why in the world would I think that Jews rule the world by proxy. I definitely think there is much more to the Israeli-US relationship than meets the eye - I don't know if there is a strong Jewish lobby here or not since the US seems powerless against Sharon - but ruling the world?

[Leon]

Originally posted by raver_mania
I don't know if there is a strong Jewish lobby here or not since the US seems powerless against Sharon

Oh brother. LOL! I don't think that above even needs a comment.

[raver_mania]

Originally posted by Leon
Oh brother. LOL! I don't think that above even needs a comment.

Whatever floats your boat.

[admin]

Originally posted by raver_mania
Leon: I really don't think its bashing...an ill-formed opinion yes, but bashing might be too harsh a word. After all the rest of his speech was very positive.

gene_2k - I really don't know! I guess its my personality - I don't like oppression, especially after seeing it happen in the neighbouring country of SOuth Africa while growing up. And I don't post much clubbing related since I don't make it up to NYC as much as I used to.

In 1939, Hitler made a speach in Reichstag, spoke about Economy and Teachers, made some valid points. In the same speach he decaled The destruction of the Jews. No one ever said "the Jew remark was out of line but his speach had some positive points."