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MsRay
03-11-2003, 10:29 AM
Though I am ignorant of the politics collegiate athletics, I found this article interesting. It talks about an idea of starting to pay college athletes a stipend in the $100/week area. What are your views on this and on the effects on collegiate athletics?

Also, what are your views on athletic scholarships in general especially in Division I schools? Have they become a token gesture by the schools to bring in talent at the expense of academics? Is the idea that one on such a scholarship could graduate with scant attention to academics? Or is that a myth? Or is it more a case-by-case basis?

The article is here (http://www.salon.com/news/sports/col/kaufman/2003/03/08/king/index.html).

You will need to Salon.com premium subscription or a one-day pass.

For those without, the article is below:

The high price of scandal
The solution to the rampant corruption in college sports might be to pay the players. It's a controversial idea -- and it's gaining ground.

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By King Kaufman



March 8, 2003 | Fresno State has taken itself out of the postseason because of an academic scandal. Georgia head coach Jim Harrick is under fire, his son and assistant, Jim Jr., already dismissed in an academic and financial scandal. The University of Rhode Island, the Harricks' previous employer, is looking into similar charges involving them there, and recently settled a sexual harassment suit against the elder Harrick.

St. Bonaventure players boycotted the last two games of the season after one of them was declared ineligible because he'd received a welding certificate, not a degree, from his junior college. The transfer had been personally approved by the president of the university, who overruled the school official charged with complying with NCAA rules.

That was the news from college basketball this week.

It's not hard to conclude that big-time college sports are in trouble. Cheating, fraud and academic improprieties are rampant. The only thing surprising about this week's flurry of scandals is that nobody seems to be surprised by them. It's business as usual.

Or is it education as usual? That's the question at the center of college athletics: Is it a business or a part of the educational process? The NCAA, which governs intercollegiate athletics, argues vehemently that it's in charge of an amateur enterprise, a student activity. But with television contracts in the billions of dollars and athletes allegedly collecting six-figure payments from boosters while never going near a classroom, the argument is getting harder and harder to make.

And it may be time to stop making it. Athletic scholarships provide for room, board, tuition and books. The idea of going beyond that, of letting athletes share in the revenue they produce, has been batted around for a long time. Lately, it's gained some traction.

Nebraska state Sen. Ernie Chambers made the papers by introducing a bill that would force the University of Nebraska to pay players on its powerhouse football team a $100 weekly stipend if three of the six other states in the Big 12 Conference passed similar legislation. Chambers got a similar bill passed in 1988, but it was vetoed by Gov. Kay Orr. This time, Gov. Mike Johanns has said he'd sign the bill if it passed.

In Texas, a Big 12 state, Sen. Ron Wilson introduced a bill in the state Senate that, like other bills he's authored in the past, would give all scholarship athletes in every sport at state schools $200 a month. Larry Eustachy, the basketball coach at Iowa State, another Big 12 member, went so far as to say he would be willing to donate part of his $1.1 million annual salary toward paying players.

The NCAA, meanwhile, which governs intercollegiate athletics, says that any player in Nebraska or anywhere else who accepts payment would be declared ineligible, regardless of any state's law.

But something of a drumbeat to pay players is developing, and why not? "They are unpaid workers, and in big-time college athletics, not just football, there are no amateurs," Chambers told National Public Radio. "What I want is the athletes to have some spendable money."

Chambers is talking about athletes whose labor, in the case of Cornhusker football players, generates $16 million in annual profit. That's more than $188,000 profit per scholarship, or more than 10 times the value of a scholarship at a state school.

The idea of the college athlete as exploited worker was most famously illustrated by Chris Webber's claim, first made in Mitch Albom's 1994 book "Fab Five," that while he was a star at the University of Michigan, replica Chris Webber jerseys were selling for top dollar in the same mall where the real Webber couldn't afford a Big Mac.

"I remember reading that and thinking, 'That is total bullshit! Chris Webber is getting a pretty good amount of money to play at Michigan, as are the rest of the Fab Five,'" says Murray Sperber, an Indiana University professor who has written extensively about college sports. And he was thinking that before anyone knew about charges that Webber had accepted $288,000 from a booster, a case in which Webber is now under indictment for allegedly lying to a grand jury. "I just knew the way the Michigan program worked," Sperber says. "He not only could have afforded to buy dinner at McDonald's, he could have bought the McDonald's franchise."

Having said that, Sperber believes college athletes should be paid, but not because they're exploited workers. He says paying athletes, treating them as university staffers who, like any secretary or clerk, had the option of attending classes for free but wouldn't have to, would end the corruption that plagues the college sports world.

"It seems to me the advantage of these staff contracts and professionalization is that all the stuff you're reading in the paper about, like, in Georgia, the Harricks, and the various other paying athletes under the table, all this bullshit ends," Sperber says. "The NCAA rule book, which is the size of the Manhattan phone book at this point, shrinks to a tiny thing."

The NCAA has a bewildering welter of rules preventing athletes from making money during their sport's season and limiting them to $2,000 of income in the offseason, though there's no limit to what an athlete can make during school vacations, as long as it's not made as a result of prowess in his or her sport.

Of course, athletes in big-time programs also get state-of-the-art training facilities, first-class travel, food and road accommodations, general adulation and the opportunity to rake in a fortune -- both legally, by turning pro, and less so, by playing footsie with rich boosters.

But only as long as athletic eligibility remains. Kendall Youngblood, a radio advertising salesman and former Utah State point guard, co-founded the fledgling Former College Athletes Association in Salt Lake City to try to help former players make the sometimes difficult transition to life after sports. He says he has mixed feelings about paying players, pointing out that when he was in college a decade ago he had trouble managing the small amount of cash he had access to.

"But maybe that money is put aside to where they get it when they graduate, they get it when their eligibility is up," he says. "I think that's what you need to do. I don't think you say, 'OK, here's your $5,000 a month.' But you give them incentive."

Peter Roby, director of the Center for the Study of Sport in Society at Northeastern University in Boston, says that despite popular perception, it's mostly a myth that college athletes are an exploited class who are kicked to the curb as soon as they can't help the team anymore.

"I think there's plenty of high-profile examples of that," he says. "Maybe that makes people think that every athlete that goes to a Division I program gets exploited and they don't end up getting an education. The majority of people that go through Division I schools are actually getting a very good education."

Roby, who played basketball at Dartmouth in the late '70s and later coached there and at Stanford, Army and Harvard, says that education is the forgotten part of the discussion of paying athletes. The center helps former athletes by running the National Consortium for Academics and Sports' Degree Completion Program, in which the 217 member schools agree to waive tuition for athletes who return to school to finish their degree, in return for community service.

"We can't forget that the reason that institutions of higher education even exist is because people are supposed to be going there to get an education," he says. "It's not supposed to be a minor league for the NFL. So to suggest that because they've built this thing into a monster, now they have to do something else to compensate the players -- why don't they scale it back instead? Why don't they make it less taxing on the athletes so that they can in fact go to school? They're throwing bad money at bad money, and that to me is not the answer."

Michael Kinney got an education at Southwest Missouri Baptist University, where he also played football in the mid-'90s. He parlayed his book-learning into a job as a columnist for the Sedalia (Mo.) Democrat, and in a column Sunday endorsing the idea of paying college players, recalled being so broke in school that he couldn't afford gas for his "smooth Geo Prism."

"As valuable as an education is," Kinney wrote, "the blood, sweat and tears that most football players shed during their tenure is more priceless. Besides that, you can't put a scholarship in a gas tank."

"The point I was trying to make is that, yes, athletes do get that scholarship, but they're not allowed to participate in the rest of college life," Kinney said in a phone interview this week. "Other people are allowed to do, you know, going out, late night, have a bite to eat or something like that. A lot of athletes may come from lower income families, and that money's just not there for them to be able to do that. So in my mind, that's something that -- I'm not looking for two or three thousand dollars or anything like that, but $100 a week or even $50 a week would be a little more helpful."

If you've never sat down and thought this through -- and there's no reason why you should have -- you probably don't realize how complicated things can get when you start talking about paying college athletes even nominal sums. The obvious question is: Where does the money come from? Perhaps only programs that show a profit should have to pay their players. But anyone who's taken Accounting 101 or is a fan of the movies or major league baseball knows how easy it is to hide a profit. If only revenue-producing athletes, who are almost all male, get paid, then Title IX issues arise.

Paying athletes opens universities up to all sorts of questions -- which is to say lawsuits -- regarding worker's compensation law, labor law, antitrust law, tax law. In short, it would very likely turn athletes into employees of their university, rather than students participating in an activity, as the NCAA strenuously, and so far successfully, argues is the case. Cross that line and everything would be different.

It would no doubt fall to the courts to decide whether a tailback who sprains his ankle is eligible for workman's comp. (Sperber tells in his book "Onward to Victory" about how the term "student-athlete" was coined by the NCAA to replace the professional-sounding word "player" in response to losing workman's compensation claims to injured athletes in the 1950s.) The value of an athletic scholarship might become taxable income. Athletes could win the right to unionize and strike. Unions have struck over smaller matters than an entire industry, college sports in this case, limiting the salaries of an entire class of employee at an artificially low level, called an athlete's stipend.

And don't forget that, as the NCAA warned after Chambers' Nebraska bill moved out of committee, any school that pays its athletes runs afoul of strict eligibility rules. Those rules might seem arbitrary and draconian when considered individually -- why is it, again, that athletes can't hold down a job or accept a ride to the airport? -- but they work pretty well at squelching precisely this type of debate before it can really get started. They'll probably render the bills in Nebraska and Texas, even if they pass, moot. The NCAA didn't get to control college sports by being dumb. An argument can be made that the NCAA's main reason for existing is to act as a cartel to maximize profits for its members, partly by limiting wages for players.

Sperber, the Indiana professor, says the problem the NCAA doesn't seem to want to face is that college sports are pretty much already a professional arena. He points out that, contrary to popular belief, an athletic scholarship is not a guaranteed "free ride" through school. "In fact, they're one-year contracts, they're renewed every July, basically at the behest of the coach, and coaches often renew for athletic reasons, not academic reasons," he says. "And when scholarships are like that, you've got to say these are contracts, and how is this different from professional sports?"

The answer might be that it's different only in the imaginations of fans. "Some of the marketability of college athletics, a part of the reason people like college athletics, is they like the idea of amateurism," Missouri basketball coach Quin Snyder told the Associated Press. "I think that's kind of a myth. But it's a myth that's very popular.

An unscientific fan poll by Yahoo Sports this week found that a slight majority opposed paying college players.

Another argument against paying players is that most athletic departments lose money, even if they have successful football and basketball programs, since they also have to fund sports that don't bring in any income. If they had to pay their players, they'd lose even more. NCAA spokesman Wally Renfro pointed out that the NCAA's $6 billion television contract with CBS would not come close to paying every scholarship athlete $2,000 a year.

Many schools would be forced out of the big-time sports business if they had to pay their athletes a stipend, never mind market rates. That would create a smaller group of schools that could compete at the top level.

"Don't you think it's already like that right now?" asks Kinney, the football player turned columnist. "You don't see too many schools who are constantly in that top 10 or top 15 range, battling for a national title."

"It might be very salutary," Sperber says, "because it would seem to me the landscape of higher education would be divided between those schools that are in big-time college sports, paying the players, and are essentially in the entertainment business, and all the rest, who are essentially in the education business. And parents would have a pretty clear idea where to send their kids."

Sperber envisions that vast majority of schools that don't want to play in the big arena dropping down to Division III or club status, where scandals are rare.

So how likely is such a scenario? As far-fetched as it seems, it might not be so far off. While it's hard to imagine the legislative efforts in Nebraska and Texas having much impact because they're so isolated, the idea of amateurism in big-time college sports may meet its Waterloo in the courts.

What if Chris Webber, angry over his allegedly unsated hunger for a Big Mac, had sued the University of Michigan, claiming that the value of his scholarship was chump change in comparison to the profits he created for the basketball program? It's not so hard to imagine a court agreeing that Webber was a paid professional whose salary was artificially limited to the cost of a scholarship. There is precedent in a successful class-action lawsuit against the NCAA by so-called restricted coaches, entry-level assistants. The courts found that an NCAA salary cap for restricted coaches violated antitrust law.

A player winning such a suit would change everything, should that victory survive NCAA appeals that would undoubtedly be fierce and sustained.

"It seems to me it would cut through the bullshit," Sperber says.


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About the writer
King Kaufman is a senior writer for Salon. For more columns by Kaufman, visit his archive.

TheHipHopBillGates
03-11-2003, 10:48 AM
I think it's discrimination against students that aren't athleticly inclined, just a lawsuit waiting to happen.

MsRay
03-11-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by TheHipHopBillGates
I think it's discrimination against students that aren't athleticly inclined, just a lawsuit waiting to happen. But if non-athletic scholarships exist, how are non-athletic students discriminated against?

TheHipHopBillGates
03-11-2003, 02:33 PM
because they have no chance of getting an athletic scholarship, where as athletes can still get non-athletic scholarships. Besides paying someone is different then a scholarship, and I don't know any other scholarship that pays students to goto school.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 02:40 PM
They are not discriminated against. This debate has been going on for a very long time. Many feel that student-athletes, whom are on full scholarship, should not get a dime more than they have gotten already. Well for those out there that have not participated in a collegiate sport at any level should have an understanding of what time and dedication it takes for an athlete to be involved in there field.

When I played at PSU, my freshman and sophomore years this debate was answered by the NCAA, allowing athletes to hold a job. But in 1998 the NCAA realized that asking an athlete to produce in the classroom, on the field and in the workplace would be quite difficult.

Personally, I spent over 30 hours a week during a season dedicated to Football, not to mention my School work load. Yes I received full scholarship and board but how was I supposed to afford any extra-carricular activity such as going out on a date or even going to see a movie.

So if you were to ask me should a student athlete get paid? Absolutely. If you need to figure out where this money would come from well; PSU sold 107,000 seats each weekend, I don't think a nickel from each ticket would hurt.

MsRay
03-11-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
When I played at PSU, my freshman and sophomore years this debate was answered by the NCAA, allowing athletes to hold a job. But in 1998 the NCAA realized that asking an athlete to produce in the classroom, on the field and in the workplace would be quite difficult.

So if you were to ask me should a student athlete get paid? Absolutely.How would you deal with the issues brought up in the article regarding the status of athletes if they were paid? Would they be employees at that point?

Instead of paying athletes, could the programs themselves should be scaled back? Is the NCAA argument that Division I sports are just amateur organizations realistic? If not, what is the role of these organizations to academia?

TheHipHopBillGates
03-11-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
They are not discriminated against. This debate has been going on for a very long time. Many feel that student-athletes, whom are on full scholarship, should not get a dime more than they have gotten already. Well for those out there that have not participated in a collegiate sport at any level should have an understanding of what time and dedication it takes for an athlete to be involved in there field.

When I played at PSU, my freshman and sophomore years this debate was answered by the NCAA, allowing athletes to hold a job. But in 1998 the NCAA realized that asking an athlete to produce in the classroom, on the field and in the workplace would be quite difficult.

Personally, I spent over 30 hours a week during a season dedicated to Football, not to mention my School work load. Yes I received full scholarship and board but how was I supposed to afford any extra-carricular activity such as going out on a date or even going to see a movie.

So if you were to ask me should a student athlete get paid? Absolutely. If you need to figure out where this money would come from well; PSU sold 107,000 seats each weekend, I don't think a nickel from each ticket would hurt.

with 30 hours a week on the field and a full load when did you have time to date or see a movie? It's crap atheletes shouldn't get anymore.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by MsRay
How would you deal with the issues brought up in the article regarding the status of athletes if they were paid? Would they be employees at that point?

Instead of paying athletes, could the programs themselves should be scaled back? Is the NCAA argument that Division I sports are just amateur organizations realistic? If not, what is the role of these organizations to academia?


In reality athletes are employees of a University as it would be. If a Football team is generating money for a University, enabling the University through its sales of jerseys, tickets, and other paraphanalia why not extend some of those sales towards the athletes themselves.

Should prgrams be scaled back. How can they be?

The NCAA does have a very strong argument that sports are just an amateur organization. From the moment an athlete is recruited through the High School process they are probed as to how they will not only benifit the University during there career there but as to there athletic career there after.

What do you mean exactly; what are the roles of these organizations toward academia? Are you asking how does a athletic team benefit academics or relate to it in general?

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by TheHipHopBillGates
with 30 hours a week on the field and a full load when did you have time to date or see a movie? It's crap atheletes shouldn't get anymore.

My 30 hours a week was dedicated during a season. After a saturday game. I had plenty of oppurtunity to see a movie or do what with my time as I prefered.

Have you ever participated in a major collegiate sport? How can you say its crap?

MsRay
03-11-2003, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
In reality athletes are employees of a University as it would be. If a Football team is generating money for a University, enabling the University through its sales of jerseys, tickets, and other paraphanalia why not extend some of those sales towards the athletes themselves.

Should prgrams be scaled back. How can they be?

The NCAA does have a very strong argument that sports are just an amateur organization. From the moment an athlete is recruited through the High School process they are probed as to how they will not only benifit the University during there career there but as to there athletic career there after.

What do you mean exactly; what are the roles of these organizations toward academia? Are you asking how does a athletic team benefit academics or relate to it in general? If you felt that the organizations are only amateur on face, but function more like professional sports, then I was curious what would the role be for the organizations and athletes in relation to the schools and academics.

TheHipHopBillGates
03-11-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
My 30 hours a week was dedicated during a season. After a saturday game. I had plenty of oppurtunity to see a movie or do what with my time as I prefered.

Have you ever participated in a major collegiate sport? How can you say its crap?

I work for a university I deal with atheletes everyday you get enough as it is. 2/3 of you need to spend more time concentrating on your studies.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 09:19 PM
The better the role playing of inter-collegiate athletics the better the academia of a schools environment will be. Athletics enable a support for a schooling system at any level. Giving the student body the oppurtunity to watch, support, and participate in there school athletics allows individual students to be better well-rounded.

When my teacher tought me physics (aerodynamics) he parraled his lesson on the throwing of a football in spiral motion. When the football is spiraling there is less wind resistance enabling the football to go farther.

My math teacher taught statistics and related it to how a running back gains yards (average yards per carry) .

By no means am I explaining these examples to sound like a smart ass but simply to explain how basic athletic information can be related to academia. Therefore enabling students to better relate to there education.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 09:27 PM
Originally posted by TheHipHopBillGates
I work for a university I deal with atheletes everyday you get enough as it is. 2/3 of you need to spend more time concentrating on your studies.

What University do you work for?

Perhaps your student/athletes need to concentrate on there studies and if that is the case then i would hope people like you who work for the university do there job correctly and make sure that the student/athlete is provided with all the proper resources to do so. Or at least retire early so those who are better equipt can be put in the proper postion to better inspire student/athletes.

TheHipHopBillGates
03-11-2003, 09:40 PM
William Paterson and Rutgers. I work in academic advisement, and tutor anyone that walks thru the door. If they don't come I can't help them, so they have no one to blame but themself because not only are these programs promoted throughout the school, but they are also reinforced through out academics by the professors. A good portion of atheletes are poor examples of students that are taking up scholarships and seats that students that actually want to learn could have. And big school sports programs may bring in a certain amout of revenue but for smaller schools anything the atheletic programs bring in is nothing substantical. You seem to think that someone owes you something, but if your not putting forth an effort ot learn people in my position don't owe you anything to help you.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by TheHipHopBillGates
William Paterson and Rutgers. I work in academic advisement, and tutor anyone that walks thru the door. If they don't come I can't help them, so they have no one to blame but themself because not only are these programs promoted throughout the school, but they are also reinforced through out academics by the professors. A good portion of atheletes are poor examples of students that are taking up scholarships and seats that students that actually want to learn could have. And big school sports programs may bring in a certain amout of revenue but for smaller schools anything the atheletic programs bring in is nothing substantical. You seem to think that someone owes you something, but if your not putting forth an effort ot learn people in my position don't owe you anything to help you.

No one owes me a thing nor have I said that. However as an academic advisor it is up to you to motivate students even those who do not have enough sense to walk through your doors. Ad (towards, to go to) Vise(vision, direction) that is part of your title correct. This is why you are an ADVISOR. If anyone owes anyone it is you. You owe it to yourself to be there for your student-athletes in order to provide them with the best academic enviroment they can have.

So you work at Rutgers. I wonder how much Greg Schiano would appreciate your opinion on student-athletes. Maybe I should e-mail him and see what he has to say as to what his opinion would be on paying student-athletes.

TheHipHopBillGates
03-11-2003, 10:02 PM
Learn to read buddy. I work in academic advisement, I'm a tutor not a an advisor. I'm not going to hunt student down, nor would I know which ones out of the thousands. I volunteer, so who do I owe? I don't owe anyone anything. Get over yourself brother.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by TheHipHopBillGates
Learn to read buddy. I work in academic advisement, I'm a tutor not a an advisor. I'm not going to hunt student down, nor would I know which ones out of the thousands. I volunteer, so who do I owe? I don't owe anyone anything. Get over yourself brother.

LMAO...you volunteer, why with you attitude? No one asked you to hunt anyone down. You didn't explain previously that you did volunteer, you made it seem that you were employed by Rutgers and William Paterson. My mistake. How can you tell me to get over myself we are debating here. There is no reason to get personal. I just feel you may need to put your shoes in that of a student-athlete before saying that a scholraship is wasted on them and that 2/3 of them need to spend more time on there studies. In fact you have no idea what it is like to play on a major athletic team. Nor do you have any conception as to the trials and tribulations that are invloved. So brother please educate yourself a bit more on the subject or have at least a little bit more than volunteer credentials before coming at me like that.

MsRay
03-11-2003, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
The better the role playing of inter-collegiate athletics the better the academia of a schools environment will be. Athletics enable a support for a schooling system at any level. Giving the student body the oppurtunity to watch, support, and participate in there school athletics allows individual students to be better well-rounded.I do see a function for inter-collegiate athletics in higher education, though, to what degree is probably best described as Division II and III.

The question of role if the larger organizations acted as minor league professional teams was raised because the case could be made that the sports organizations at these schools could be conceptualized as schools unto themselves. Their ultimate goals would be solely focused on the sport and conceivably the players wouldn't need academics. A sort of division of labor where the schools would have the academic departments and then the athletic departments. A division of mind and body.

Though interesting as a hypothetical (or basis for a short story?) this idea is, I don't believe anything like it is the case in general. I know the debate of student-athletes in larger Division I schools is ongoing and plenty times heated, but I am curious as to the reality of the situation for the student-athletes (both those that are destined for the pros and those not), the non-student-athletes at these institutions, and the effect on higher ed.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 10:59 PM
Reality is that if student-athletes rely on the fact that they are going to make a living on there sport they are sadly mistaken. This is the reason why you see so many athletes leave early, the money is in the fore front of there mind rather than education which should be there first priority. Perhaps them being payed while they play (during college) would perhaps give the student-athlete more insentive to finish there education.

The problem lies with the coaches and the educators, they themselves need to emphasize the fact that the student-athletes education is of the upmost importance. As we all know nothing last forever especially an athletic career.

MsRay
03-11-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
The problem lies with the coaches and the educators, they themselves need to emphasize the fact that the student-athletes education is of the upmost importance. As we all know nothing last forever especially an athletic career. It would seem though that the system is quite large and perhaps its inertia would make rectifying that problem most difficult. You asked before how to scale back the programs; perhaps, that is the first question that now needs to be asked.

Curiously, do feel a $400/month stipend would retain more student-athletes. Is leaving before completing the education common?

DiskoBob
03-11-2003, 11:32 PM
Getting a free ride to a top university is all the compensation you need. You know what it feels like to graduate $80,000 - $100,000 in debt b/c you don't have an athletic scholarship or any type of scholarship. Like SHIT! I would much rather be broke throughout college then graduate in debt and have to stress about paying those loans off once your finished.

Frankie Spano
03-11-2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by DiskoBob
Getting a free ride to a top university is all the compensation you need. You know what it feels like to graduate $80,000 - $100,000 in debt b/c you don't have an athletic scholarship or any type of scholarship. Like SHIT! I would much rather be broke throughout college then graduate in debt and have to stress about paying those loans off once your finished.

There is no FREE RIDE. You think that an athlete receiving full grant and aid is getting a free ride? That he or she are not paying for there education, well they are. No stress? There is plenty of stress that coaches lay on you to preform both on and off the field. The mental aspect of playing a major collegiate sport is far more difficult than the physical.

Frankie Spano
03-12-2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by MsRay
It would seem though that the system is quite large and perhaps its inertia would make rectifying that problem most difficult. You asked before how to scale back the programs; perhaps, that is the first question that now needs to be asked.

Curiously, do feel a $400/month stipend would retain more student-athletes. Is leaving before completing the education common?

$100 a week is more than enough for a student athlete. Will it retain more student athletes? perhaps. Presenting an athlete at the beginning of there college career with the fact that they will be provided a stipend so that they will have the oppurtunities to save some money as well as be able to spend on carricular activities during there educational process may entice them a bit more to complete there education.

Is leaving common? Today the issue is more present amongst Basketball players rather than football however, the issue is present in general. When you are 20 years old and a runner (one who works for an agent, who acts as a selling point for the agent) flashes big $$$ in front of the student-athletes face they start to think.

Now, certain Universities are allowing student-athletes to finish there education soley as a student rather than a student-athlete. What i am saying is that the University is saying ok you can leave early and we are going to keep you enrolled as a college student (depending on certain criteria) and we will graduate you. Basically the University is allowing the athlete to leave early and are pushing them through there system. This is something that i totally disagree with! It is where the sport is becoming bigger than the education and it is wrong.

DiskoBob
03-12-2003, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by Frankie Spano
There is no FREE RIDE. You think that an athlete receiving full grant and aid is getting a free ride? That he or she are not paying for there education, well they are. No stress? There is plenty of stress that coaches lay on you to preform both on and off the field. The mental aspect of playing a major collegiate sport is far more difficult than the physical.


So is being in debt coming out of college. Yes, I agree there is no free ride and what i ment to say or should have said was that your salary for playing for a school team is free TUITION. Is that not enough???

Frankie Spano
03-12-2003, 12:32 AM
The debate of whether student athletes should get paid is what is at hand. If you are going to ask me should they get paid? absolutely. If a team is generating millions of dollars for a University why shouldn't those athletes get part of the revenue that they provide. I am talking about pocket money Bob not a salary. No its not enough if you are dedicating the majority of your time towards a sport and an education and aren't able to provide yourself with some pocket money.

TheHipHopBillGates
03-12-2003, 10:00 AM
you shouldn't get shit. Half the students come out of school having to work for years to pay back there room and board. Free room & board is more then enough. And except for large universities who is making millions? Most programs barely pay for themselves, besides the rate that college atheletes are staying in college(at least the gifted ones) one/two years, college is nothing but the minor leagues, should just disolve it. Oh and I know it's 2/3's of atheletes because thats how many got registered for basic skill classes in the fall semester. And your the one with the negative attitude her, like someone owes your dumbass something, I'll help anyone that walks thru the door, or contacts a professor or coach for help, otherwise how do I know they need it, So go fuck yourself you fucking idiot, you want to attack someone and not expect them to get personal, whatever. Oh and by the way I do get a stipend and free tution from the Universities.

MsRay
03-12-2003, 10:20 AM
I would hope that the personal attacks end now. I think this can be discussed without getting personal and if not, I would ask that replies be restricted to PMs or be not at all.

MsRay
03-12-2003, 10:25 AM
I can understand how tuition, room & board seems to be compensation enough, but there are some places where the university is making tons of money on these players. I don't agree that this should be the case and like Frank said, it crosses over the point where athletics supersede education. Unfortunately, that is the reality at some places and one of two things need to happen: 1) the programs at these universities need to be radically scaled back though I see that as near impossible or 2) the players need to be compensated in some form. The profit the university makes on their student-athletes is incredible and should be shared or ended.

TheHipHopBillGates
03-12-2003, 12:16 PM
So what your saying is that atheletes at some universaties would get compensation and others wouldn't? and then only the one's where the sports are profitable ie football vs. womens lacrosse?

MsRay
03-12-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by TheHipHopBillGates
So what your saying is that atheletes at some universaties would get compensation and others wouldn't? and then only the one's where the sports are profitable ie football vs. womens lacrosse? Yes. Of course, that itself comes with its own issues.