Democratic debate..

[jameznyhc]

So a month ago they all promised to end the war ..Now there singing a different tune, I just find it mindboggling how they change their positions so quickly.. they all indicated they would raise our taxes ..And for the first time Hillary got caught off guard by Russerts tough questions.. seems like the only candidates that now represent the majority of the democrats point of view is kucinich and richardson who promised to end the war asap..

By BETH FOUHY
HANOVER, N.H. (AP) - The leading Democratic White House hopefuls conceded Wednesday night they cannot guarantee to pull all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by the end of the next presidential term in 2013.

"I think it's hard to project four years from now," said Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois in the opening moments of a campaign debate in the nation's first primary state.

"It is very difficult to know what we're going to be inheriting," added Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

"I cannot make that commitment," said former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina.


Sensing an opening, Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson provided the assurances the others would not.

"I'll get the job done," said Dodd, while Richardson said he would make sure the troops were home by the end of his first year in office.

Foreign policy blended with domestic issues at the debate on a Dartmouth College stage, and several of the contenders endorsed payroll tax increases to assure a stable Social Security system.

Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware and Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, as well as Biden, Dodd, Obama, Edwards all said they would apply the tax to income now exempted.

Richardson said he wouldn't and Clinton refused to say. "I'm not putting anything on the proverbial table" unilaterally, she said.

Current law levies a 6.2 percent payroll tax only on an individual's first $97,500 in annual income.

Biden also said he was willing to consider gradually raising the retirement age, which is now 67.

Kucinich said that while he favors taxing additional income, he wants to return the retirement age to 65, where it stood until the law was changed in 1983.

Health care, and the drive for universal coverage, also figured in the debate.

"I intend to be the health care president," said Clinton, adding she can now succeed at an undertaking that defeated her in 1993 when she was first lady.


But Biden said that unnamed special interests were no more willing to work with Clinton now than they were more than a decade ago.

"I'm not suggesting it's Hillary's fault...It's reality," he said, carefully avoiding a personal attack on the Democrat who leads in the polls.

Biden said a "lot of old stuff comes back" from past battles, adding, "when I say old stuff I mean policy. Policy."

Across the stage, Clinton smiled at that.

The moment was not the only one in which attention turned to the former first lady, a campaign front-runner bidding to become the first woman president.

Asked whether presidential libraries and foundations should disclose their donors, she said she had sponsored legislation requiring it. Asked whether her husband's foundation should voluntary disclose, absent a requirement, she said, "you'll have to ask them."

"I don't think about my private conversations with my husband," she added.

She seemed to suggest differently at another point, after being asked whether she would ever approve torturing a suspected terrorist to prevent the detonation of a nuclear bomb.

She said no, and Russert said former President Clinton, her husband, once suggested it might be appropriate.

"Well, he's not standing here right now," she said, an edge in her voice.

There is a disagreement, Russert rejoined.

"Well, I'll talk to him later," she said with a smile.

A question about lowering the drinking age from 21 to 18 drew a cheer from the students listening in the Dartmouth auditorium.

And expressions of support only from former Sen. Mike Gravel of Alaska and Kucinich.

The opening question of the two-hour debate instantly plunged the eight contenders into the issue that has dominated all others - the war in Iraq.


With the primary season approaching, all eight have vied with increasing intensity for the support of anti-war voters likely to provide money and organizing muscle as the campaign progresses.

Edwards said his position on Iraq was different from Obama and Clinton, adding he would "immediately drawn down 40,000 to 50,000 troops." That's roughly half the 100,000 that Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, has indicated could be stationed there when President Bush's term ends in January 2009.

Edwards sought to draw a distinction between his position and Clinton's, saying she had said recently she wants to continue combat missions in Iraq.

"I do not want to continue combat missions in Iraq," he said.

Clinton responded quickly, saying Edwards had misstated her position. She said she favors the continued deployment of counterterrorism troops, not forces to engage in the type of combat now under way.

Asked whether they were prepared to use force to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power, several of the hopefuls sidestepped. Instead, they said, all diplomacy must be exhausted in the effort.

Moderator Tim Russert of NBC News asked about Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani's pledge to set back Iran by eight to 10 years if it tries to gain nuclear standing.

Biden flashed anger at the mention of the former New York mayor. "Rudy Giuliani doesn't know what the heck he's talking about," said Delaware senator, who is chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

"He's the most uninformed person on foreign policy that's now running for president."

The debate unfolded in the state that has held the first presidential primary in every campaign for generations.

The contest is tentatively scheduled for Jan. 22, but that is expected to change as other states maneuver for early voting position in the campaign calendar.

The debate was broadcast on MSNBC, New Hampshire Public Radio and New England Cable News.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070927/D8RTI22O0.html

[Defekted]

Not sure if you watched the same debate that I did.....

There is reality and then there is recklessness. I heard a consistant theme of withdrawing 2 battalions a month (maximum amount for safe withdraw) starting the first month they are in office and continue to do so until there is only a small amount (maybe one battalion) to protect the embassy, and to help the Iraqis if things get out of hand. Thats a huge difference from the Republicans who have no problem keeping 130k troops indefinitely for insurgent target practice.

secondly, no one ever mentioned raising taxes on the poor and middle class, they talked about what they have always talked about, repealing the bush tax cuts to the people making over 200k (or in that range) in order to fix things like social security, healthcare, etc....... huge difference ... people that make 5 million a year are not getting taxed on that money, and thats Bullshit.

third, as far as the debate went, Edwards won it hands down. He showed is lawyer skills and took Hillary head on..... Obama and Hillary did not perform as well as they should have......

Edwards attacking Hillarys vote for labeling Irans revolutionary guard a terrorist org was excellent. Just like the Iraq liberation act, its a first step in an incremental march towards war..... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me......

[Studz]

Not sure if you watched the same debate that I did.....

There is reality and then there is recklessness. I heard a consistant theme of withdrawing 2 battalions a month (maximum amount for safe withdraw) starting the first month they are in office and continue to do so until there is only a small amount (maybe one battalion) to protect the embassy, and to help the Iraqis if things get out of hand. Thats a huge difference from the Republicans who have no problem keeping 130k troops indefinitely for insurgent target practice.

secondly, no one ever mentioned raising taxes on the poor and middle class, they talked about what they have always talked about, repealing the bush tax cuts to the people making over 200k (or in that range) in order to fix things like social security, healthcare, etc....... huge difference ... people that make 5 million a year are not getting taxed on that money, and thats Bullshit.

third, as far as the debate went, Edwards won it hands down. He showed is lawyer skills and took Hillary head on..... Obama and Hillary did not perform as well as they should have......

Edwards attacking Hillarys vote for labeling Irans revolutionary guard a terrorist org was excellent. Just like the Iraq liberation act, its a first step in an incremental march towards war..... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me......

wow i cant belive i missed that. Unfortunatly i was scarffing down some Nice juicy brazillian steaks while this was going on. Maybe they will re play it. But it looks like edward has started to break out of his shell. I like him although the only thing they have going against him is how much money hes spending on his hair cut and his ties to various hedge funds (me being apart of the hedge fund world that really doesnt bother me as much)

[jameznyhc]

[QUOTE=Defekted;2047024]Not sure if you watched the same debate that I did.....

There is reality and then there is recklessness. I heard a consistant theme of withdrawing 2 battalions a month (maximum amount for safe withdraw) starting the first month they are in office and continue to do so until there is only a small amount (maybe one battalion) to protect the embassy, and to help the Iraqis if things get out of hand. Thats a huge difference from the Republicans who have no problem keeping 130k troops indefinitely for insurgent target practice.

Wait they told us they would end the war if they took control of congress in 06 lol now the facts
were bringin home 30k troops by next summer if all goes we will withdraw another 30k by jan of 09.. that leaves 100k like edwards said ...then we keep doing faze out deployments...so in reality thyeve all lied to us, and flip floped on iraq besides kucinich and richards! i guess after meeting with bush and getting his advice like hillary did this past week made her realize its far easier to criticize than actually ending this ..now what if things get worse?? i didnt hear how they would prevent genocide or civil war?? no solutions

secondly, no one ever mentioned raising taxes on the poor and middle class, they talked about what they have always talked about, repealing the bush tax cuts to the people making over 200k (or in that range) in order to fix things like social security, healthcare, etc....... huge difference ... people that make 5 million a year are not getting taxed on that money, and thats Bullshit.

first of all the poor and lower middle class do not pay taxes!! lol ..the poor recieves financial aid, the lower middle class get fulll refunds after they file and get back 90% of what they paid out.. somebody who makes 200k per year pays $66,000 in income taxes alone right now the rich are taxed at 33%..that leaves them with $140,000 ..then add in social security, fica, medical, property taxes or rent, they end up with less than 100k ..(THAT IS NOT RICh IF YOU LIVE IN NY, NJ, FLA, DC,) could a family of 5 even make it on 100k any longer? ..might be alot of money if you live on a farm in montana ..lol this is how it is under the current system ..so when rich people need to work from january to april for the fed goverment they need more tax cuts..thats why

10 million jobs been created since 9/11 and slick willys recession
unemployment below 5 %
GDP growing at 4 to 5 % per year every year
interest rates are still very low
market has soared over 4000 pts since he took office...

tax cuts allways work look at reagan, or when rudy came into power in nyc cut taxes 23 times my man

third, as far as the debate went, Edwards won it hands down. He showed is lawyer skills and took Hillary head on..... Obama and Hillary did not perform as well as they should have......

no comment lol

Edwards attacking Hillarys vote for labeling Irans revolutionary guard a terrorist org was excellent. Just like the Iraq liberation act, its a first step in an incremental march towards war..... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

hillary is a hawk homeboy i keep tellin ya this