Thank GOD

[Capt'nAmerica]

This guy didn't get elected...

[John Kennedy]

why do you say that?

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by John Kennedy
why do you say that?

After the atrocities to national security him and his buddie Bubba commited while in office thank GOD after 911 a softy like Gore wasn't in office. The dynamic duo did everything possible to cover up the terrorism promblem that faced us during the 90's..

It's been documented that Clinton/Gore were interested more in Gays in the military and environmental issue then real threats that faced and eventually boiled over resulting in the single most horrific act of terrorism on U.S soil....

- Sudan offered Bin LADEN to Clinton/Gore 3 times and they refused stating there were'nt legal grounds to indict him.. The reason they didn't have the proof was because of the limited ability the CIA & FBI had in connecting the 93 bombing to Bin Laden. That reduction in intelligence and military spending was under Clinton a democrat who's party has always favored diverting resources from the intelligence community and the military to fund the massive social programs they like to create..

- After the COLE bombing that killed 19 service men CLINTON/GORE took 3 weeks before meeting with Woosly the head of the CIA at the time, 3 weeks!!! think about that....

[joe!]

what do u mean...he invented the internet..without him..we have no nightclubcity...lmao.
hes a douchebag.

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by joe!
what do u mean...he invented the internet..without him..we have no nightclubcity...lmao.


douchebag.

Perfect..

The guy's a putz.

[John Kennedy]

for the record I agree that he is a putz, but I just wanted to see your reasoning.......

As far as oppurtunities to capture bin laden, don't you think Bush sr had the same oppurtunities? Also to capture Saddam? If we're being technical, we can blame terrorism in the 90's solely on Bush sr. and even Reagan before him. Even til September 10 2001 Bush jr did not make it a priority to capture bin laden (he had many oppurtunities).

It's no secret that communication between the FBI CIA and the president was not good before 9/11 (this goes way before clintons term).

It's easy to drop blame but in my opinion Bush Sr. and Reagan are more responsible for terrorism than Clinton is, if we're dropping blame anywhere.

[.gene.]

Originally posted by Capt'nAmerica
This guy didn't get elected...

This guy has the persona of a dimestore indian.

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by John Kennedy
for the record I agree that he is a putz, but I just wanted to see your reasoning.......

As far as oppurtunities to capture bin laden, don't you think Bush sr had the same oppurtunities? Also to capture Saddam? If we're being technical, we can blame terrorism in the 90's solely on Bush sr. and even Reagan before him. Even til September 10 2001 Bush jr did not make it a priority to capture bin laden (he had many oppurtunities).

It's no secret that communication between the FBI CIA and the president was not good before 9/11 (this goes way before clintons term).

It's easy to drop blame but in my opinion Bush Sr. and Reagan are more responsible for terrorism than Clinton is, if we're dropping blame anywhere.

Please.... lets get technical


Please provide some facts on how Bush Sr and even Reagen are to blame for today's current terrorism promblem...

[Unclebuc]

I blame Dmitry and Eleni for all of these problems!!!!

[Bobby2k]

Originally posted by Capt'nAmerica
Please.... lets get technical


Please provide some facts on how Bush Sr and even Reagen are to blame for today's current terrorism promblem...

Dont blame president clinton for the terrorism problem facing us today. Until the sep11 attacks NO president took terrorism seriously, it wasnt till after the attacks that Bush took initiatives to heighten security and go after Afghanistan. The idea that gore would have done nothing after the 9/11 attacks is just obsurd.....

[John Kennedy]

Originally posted by Capt'nAmerica
Please.... lets get technical


Please provide some facts on how Bush Sr and even Reagen are to blame for today's current terrorism promblem...

Reagans sneaky Contra affairs in the 80s caused major resentment in the mid-east. The U.S. knew Iraq was gassing Iranians and did nothing to stop that human rights catastrophe because it was in his interests back then.

Then Bush Sr's failure to topple Saddam during the Gulf war either by direct force or by backing the Shiítes so that they can topple him themselves. They were left abandoned after the gulf war. He couldve very well begun the process of stabilizing Iraq and the region after the Gulf war, just like we did in Qatar and Kuwait. But Bush left Iraq by themselves.

Now I know the U.S. interests change with time, but to say Clinton is to blame for terrorism? We had our best chances at peace during and towards the end of the Clinton administration, but there was only so much he could do to clean up the horrible mess Bush Sr. and Reagan left behind in that region.

Do you honestly think Clinton would've oked any chemical warfare in the mid-east, even if it was in our interests? He did whatever was right, you know this.

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by Bobby2k
Dont blame president clinton for the terrorism problem facing us today. Until the sep11 attacks NO president took terrorism seriously, it wasnt till after the attacks that Bush took initiatives to heighten security and go after Afghanistan. The idea that gore would have done nothing after the 9/11 attacks is just obsurd.....

If Gore were in office we would still be waiting for a resolution to enter Afghanistan.. I am not blaming President Clinton for the terrorism promblem but failing to act after a number of terrorism incidents against the U.S like....

A) 1ST WTC attack in 1992.
B) U.S. Embassy bombings in Kenya
C) USS COLE bombing..

I will tell you what obsurd is... That before the terrorism activity from Alqaeda showed up in the early 90's Bin Laden was just a fanatical extremists that fought with the mujahdeen against the Russains. When he planned and executed the first WTC bombing under CLINTON... he had 9 years to uproot Alqaeda and crush Bin Laden but he didn't he decided to limit our intelligence capabilities... How can you compare any other president to the incompetence and disregard for national security that took place in the oval office under Clinton.

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by John Kennedy
Reagans sneaky Contra affairs in the 80s caused major resentment in the mid-east. The U.S. knew Iraq was gassing Iranians and did nothing to stop that human rights catastrophe because it was in his interests back then.

Then Bush Sr's failure to topple Saddam during the Gulf war either by direct force or by backing the Shiítes so that they can topple him themselves. They were left abandoned after the gulf war. He couldve very well begun the process of stabilizing Iraq and the region after the Gulf war, just like we did in Qatar and Kuwait. But Bush left Iraq by themselves.

Now I know the U.S. interests change with time, but to say Clinton is to blame for terrorism? We had our best chances at peace during and towards the end of the Clinton administration, but there was only so much he could do to clean up the horrible mess Bush Sr. and Reagan left behind in that region.

Do you honestly think Clinton would've oked any chemical.warfare in the mid-east, even if it was in our interests?

A) OK so you are blaming fanatical extremism on the the Iran contra incident.. interesting.. What about our support for Isreal or the good ol American scapegoat some Arab leaders use to blame their countries hardships on??? We didn't do anything to stop the gassing?? Where was the out cry from the arab world?? where was the beloved U.N. when that catastrophe occured. I find it Ironic that you would blame the gassing of the Iranians on the U.S but not on Sadam..who ordered the gassing?? Iran and Iraq were in a 10 year war and yes we were on Iraq's side because it was in our best interests but we didn't push the button Sadam did and up until the recent fall of Bahgdad the Arab world looked up to Sadam.. SO how did the gassing of the Iranians fuel terrorism???

B) OK you have a point about leaving the shiites out to dry but tht didn't fuel terorism and you have to look back at the time and the mission we set out to do.. We enter the WAR because Sadam invaded Kuwait. The mission sold to the american people was to remove Sadam from Kuwait and end his dreams of taking over the middle east. We did not set out to remove Sadam we set out to drive him from Kuwait and that was accomplished so we left..

C) It sounds like you are a staunch supporter of Clinton and judging by your screen name a Democrat. The left has always been soft on foreign policy and Clinton wasn't any diffrent. The "mess" your talking about was around even before Reagan did you forget the hostages taken and held for 1 year under Carter. They were fiinally released when Reagen was elected.

Our support for Isreal is the reason for terrorism...

Oh and and your argument Clinton "did whatever was right, you know this". How did you feel when Clinton authorised the sale of Nuclear and missile technology to CHINA??? OR when he stoos infront of the american people and lied about Monica??

Clinton was... after Carter the worst president we ever had.

[Bobby2k]

Originally posted by Capt'nAmerica
If Gore were in office we would still be waiting for a resolution to enter Afghanistan.. I am not blaming President Clinton for the terrorism promblem but failing to act after a number of terrorism incidents against the U.S like....

A) 1ST WTC attack in 1992.
B) U.S. Embassy bombings in Kenya
C) USS COLE bombing..

I will tell you what obsurd is... That before the terrorism activity from Alqaeda showed up in the early 90's Bin Laden was just a fanatical extremists that fought with the mujahdeen against the Russains. When he planned and executed the first WTC bombing under CLINTON... he had 9 years to uproot Alqaeda and crush Bin Laden but he didn't he decided to limit our intelligence capabilities... How can you compare any other president to the incompetence and disregard for national security that took place in the oval office under Clinton.

When Bush Jr. first came into office did he do one thing to try to go after Bin Laden??? If your going to blame clinton for neglecting the Alqueda problem then you have to say the same about George W because frankly he knew as well about what Alqueda had done in the past and that they were plotting more attacks. The fact is both Clinton and Bush neglected the problem so u cant start doint the partisan thing and pointing fingers at people because the fact is alqueda is the group to blame for the attacks not Bill Clinton and the democrats. And the claim that we would still be waiting on a resolution in Afghanistan is simply a baseless assumption that has no fact to it other than your dislike and desire to brand Gore and democrats as pacifists. I think in the partisan quarreling that goes on these days people just exagerate on both sides way too much.

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by Bobby2k
When Bush Jr. first came into office did he do one thing to try to go after Bin Laden??? If your going to blame clinton for neglecting the Alqueda problem then you have to say the same about George W because frankly he knew as well about what Alqueda had done in the past and that they were plotting more attacks. The fact is both Clinton and Bush neglected the problem so u cant start doint the partisan thing and pointing fingers at people because the fact is alqueda is the group to blame for the attacks not Bill Clinton and the democrats. And the claim that we would still be waiting on a resolution in Afghanistan is simply a baseless assumption that has no fact to it other than your dislike and desire to brand Gore and democrats as pacifists. I think in the partisan quarreling that goes on these days people just exagerate on both sides way too much.

Gore and the left aren't pacifists??? Didn't the 12 years of Sadam wipping his ass with 17 resolutions and the UN doing nothing with the blessing of the Clinton administration show you that the left are a teethless dogs when it comes to national security and foreign policy.. The following incidents with no retaliation proved to the world that we weren't only vulnerable but didn't care..

WTC I bombing ....1993
Khobar Towers in June 1996
Bombings in Nairobi, Kenya
and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania --
August 7, 1998

U.S.S COLE. OCT 12TH 2000..
The above BUBBA took 3 weeks to meet with Woosley the head of the CIA that doesn't show you he his a bungelling fool??

911 HAPPENED AND THE US HAS BEEN KICKING ASS AND ASKING QUESTIONS LATER

That my freind is the diffrence between being a super-power and calling the shots or pussy footing around a promblem and getting slapped with our pants down..

[John Kennedy]

Did Reagan or Bush do anything to retaliate Pan Am 103? or the TWA bombing before that? You can't bring up specific insidents because any president wouldve done the same thing Clinton did which was not much. Reagan did shit, Bush Sr. did shit, and only Bush Sr now is trying to get the job done because of the scale of 9/11 and the new doors it opened. It's a NEW WORLD! No president before had the foresight to predict something of that scale was possible.

And although Bush Jr. had the most imminent threat in front of him, you still can't blame him because he still didn't imagine the scale. They hit us good and hard and very unexpectedly, let's just leave it at that.

You keep bringing up the CIA meeting after the Cole but Bush Jr was no more communicative with his CIA and FBA than Clinton was, so that point is moot.

I only brought up points from the past because I don't understand how you can single out Clinton as being responsible for any of this, if anyone.

Come on I know you were a happier camper when Clinton was president, don't get tangled up under that flag of yours! Those massive social programs? We're a rich country we should have massive social programs! It wasn't like we're a bunch of communists because of it. Programs for small businesses, healthcare, support for states, these are all things a successful country NEEDS, they are not just luxuries.

[Bobby2k]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt'nAmerica
Gore and the left aren't pacifists??? Didn't the 12 years of Sadam wipping his ass with 17 resolutions and the UN doing nothing with the blessing of the Clinton administration show you that the left are a teethless dogs when it comes to national security and foreign policy.. The following incidents with no retaliation proved to the world that we weren't only vulnerable but didn't care..

WTC I bombing ....1993
Khobar Towers in June 1996
Bombings in Nairobi, Kenya
and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania --
August 7, 1998

U.S.S COLE. OCT 12TH 2000..
The above BUBBA took 3 weeks to meet with Woosley the head of the CIA that doesn't show you he his a bungelling fool??

911 HAPPENED AND THE US HAS BEEN KICKING ASS AND ASKING QUESTIONS LATER

That my freind is the diffrence between being a super-power and calling the shots or pussy footing around a promblem and getting slapped with our pants down.. [/QUOTe

Terrorism of course was a big concern to Bush from the moment he came into office right???? After the fact everyone is pointing fingers at everyone else yet during the time of these attacks not one person was complaining about how the clinton administration handled the situation because in fact noone believed in the sevverity of it. The fact is the severity of 9/11 changed the US policy not Bush coming into office. If u really think that taking over Iraq and placing more troops in the middle east will help prevent terrorism then talk to the israeli's....

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by John Kennedy
Did Reagan or Bush do anything to retaliate Pan Am 103? or the TWA bombing before that? You can't bring up specific insidents because any president wouldve done the same thing Clinton did which was not much. Reagan did shit, Bush Sr. did shit, and only Bush Sr now is trying to get the job done because of the scale of 9/11 and the new doors it opened. It's a NEW WORLD! No president before had the foresight to predict something of that scale was possible.

And although Bush Jr. had the most imminent threat in front of him, you still can't blame him because he still didn't imagine the scale. They hit us good and hard and very unexpectedly, let's just leave it at that.

You keep bringing up the CIA meeting after the Cole but Bush Jr was no more communicative with his CIA and FBA than Clinton was, so that point is moot.

I only brought up points from the past because I don't understand how you can single out Clinton as being responsible for any of this, if anyone.

Come on I know you were a happier camper when Clinton was president, don't get tangled up under that flag of yours! Those massive social programs? We're a rich country we should have massive social programs! It wasn't like we're a bunch of communists because of it. Programs for small businesses, healthcare, support for states, these are all things a successful country NEEDS, they are not just luxuries.

OK lets go over the facts..
PANAM flight 103 blew up over Scotland on Dec 21st 1988. Scotland has persucuted the two men responsible and along with massive econmic sanctions Lybia has set up a 2 billion fund to pay families of the victims of flight 103.

Did we forget that the U.S was fighting another war at the time??
Didn't being on the brink of nuclear war with the former Soviet Union hold precedent to all out war with lybia?? If my memory serves me right Reagen sent F14's to Lybia and bombed Qadafi's home killing one of his children since then I bet LYBIA has thought twice about sponsiring terrorism.

John you are correct, NOONE knew that they were going to fly planes into the WTC but more could have been done.. Did you ever think that the Monica scandal actually helped Alqeada plot and execute the 911 attacks?? Some former advisors of Clinton think so one of them is Dick Morris. Dick even said that Clinton was warned about the terrorist bombings against American troops at the Khobar Towers - and he ignored the warning that wasn't a general warningthat was direct acurate from a reliable source. I know the U.S gets thousands of threats each day and we can't possibly act on every one but come on man this guy dropped the ball BIG TIME even his closesst aids and former military and dept of defense officials are saying so.

Now this brings me to your rebuttal of Clinton taking 3 weeks to meet with the CIA.. in which you said...


****You keep bringing up the CIA meeting after the Cole but Bush Jr was no more communicative with his CIA and FBA than Clinton was, so that point is moot.********

John take a good look at this statement. USS COLE gets attacked and 18 AMERICAN sailors die and in your eyes it was ok that it took him 3 weeks to meet with the head of the CIA to discuss a blatant attack agianst us OVERSEAS that's just lunacy..
That's like BLOOMBERG taking 3 weeks toi meet with Kelly to discuss a sinking of a S.I. FERRY boat.

Now some social programs are needed such as good health care not free.. but good health care and the latest reforms to malpractice awardings is a good start. Support for small business is cutting taxes nothing else and that my freind is what republicans stand for less government is always better. What I don't favor is paying welfare to a perfectly healthy individual who finds working in McDonalds to petty so they choose to go on welfare. The U.S. is the greatest country in the world because we beleive for the most part that every individual is responsible for their own destiny and whether you attend HARVARD or a community college you can acheive what your parents didn't plain and simple..
Times may have been better in the 90's because of a RECORD runup of the stock market and record growth(Clinton had nothing to do with this) but that was then this is now and I stand by my original statement.... THANK GOD GORE DIDN'T GET ELECTED.

[Bobby2k]

What you fail to address is that these problems were neglected by the Bush administration as well until 9/11/01. These attacks that you stated that Clinton failed to address properly, this may be true. I ask you now when Bush came into office what did he do prior to 9/11 to address this issue? Absolutely nothing because the fact is everyone underestimated the threat in which terrorism posed on the US.

[Capt'nAmerica]

Originally posted by Bobby2k
What you fail to address is that these problems were neglected by the Bush administration as well until 9/11/01. These attacks that you stated that Clinton failed to address properly, this may be true. I ask you now when Bush came into office what did he do prior to 9/11 to address this issue? Absolutely nothing because the fact is everyone underestimated the threat in which terrorism posed on the US.

Granted we did live in la-la land BUT what you fail to realize that those terrorist attacks happened on Clinton's watch and he ignored the threat plain and simple... you can't spin in any other way.. I will point out again...

WTC I bombing ....1993
Khobar Towers in June 1996
Bombings in Nairobi, Kenya
and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania --
August 7, 1998

U.S.S COLE. OCT 12TH 2000..

What did he do??? He showed his cock to a intern and we were the laughing stock of the world... oh I forgot he lobbed 1 tomahawk to afghanistan BIG fucking deal...

How can a new president come in and address a promblem the former president was supposed to fix or even covered up .. Bush even addressed this in one of his speeches for Iraq, that the war on terror is in front of us now and he won't rely on passing the buck to another president to crush the imminent threat of terrorism and it's unquenchnable thirst to destroy the U.S. of A.

Call him a cowboy if you want but that's what we need to cut the head off of this beast...